The old look back, the young look forward. Where do they meet?
Transcript
Frank: And gentlemen, we are live, Ritesh, fire away. It’s all yours.
Ritesh: Oh, okay. So recently, like last week, I visited my college with my one of my friend. And then I thought that let’s ask this question to you guys and you and Ismar. Do you guys think about your young days, how you used to be energetic or what was you dreaming at your young age? Have you ever thought about this?
Frank About our young days?
Ritesh Yeah.
Frank Ismar, do you think…
Ismar Oh, Ritesh, I’m sorry, but…
Frank Good old days, yeah?
Ismar Ritesh, sorry, but I didn’t understand your question.
Ritesh No, I was asking like, do you remember your young days? Like, what was your expression, dreams, and what things you used to like to do at that time?
Ismar Oh, let me know if understood. Do you want to know how I dreamed when I was young and how my life is now? Yeah.
Ritesh That’s… somewhat, but I was asking about your that time dream, not comparing that time dream and what your life right now.
Ismar I think it happens to all most of us. I thought that I would be a very important and rich man and I would have not a large family, but maybe two kids and a wife. And I have nowadays after two common loss partners, no, not two, three, I live alone and I have no kids. I just have two step kids and it wasn’t a good experience. And I’m so happy for not having children because I think it’s not my cup of tea. And you can see that I dream to have kids and I don’t have and I’m so happy, all glad, because I said some weeks ago that I don’t believe in happiness, then I’m glad to not having kids. And I suppose I dreamed many, many times to be different kinds of professional. I would like to be a physician. I’d like to be a footballer. After that, a physical educational. After that, a dentist. After, a professor. And I have become for some time one or other of this list. I had a degree in dentist. I worked for some years, but I had an accident. I was very bad to become a footballer. I didn’t succeed to be one.
About the physical education, I tried sometimes to go into a college to be a physical educator, but for some other reason, I changed my mind. And professor, I’m not a professor, but I thought sometimes, and I think it’s a hard activity. Although it’s something that give us, at least for me, give us some pleasure to transmit some information, some knowledge. But the people in general, they don’t want to learn. They prefer to continue with kid runs and to continue on the same level they are. Nowadays, I take care of my mom who is 85 years old. If I live the same number of years, probably I will have to go to an elderly home because I have no kids. I hope that I have answered at least part of your question.
Frank So the topic tonight is basically the young generation that would be Ritesh, the youngest, followed in hot pursuit by Igor and not far behind Sebastian, asking us senior old age pensioners with a combined age of about 125, our perspective on life.
So did I have a dream when I was a kid? Actually, I had one. And in hindsight, it’s quite funny, actually. The dream, I can actually pinpoint it. The dream was about 1970 when I was the tender age of nine.
And it was just after the first landing on the moon. Actually, I might have told, I think, Igor, I might have told you this story. I’m not sure.
Igor Yeah, I think so.
Frank So my parents were friends with some other, another couple, and they both had sons, so me and a chap called Michael. We were living in Australia at the time, and we watched the moon landing.
And so fantastic was this experience so inspirational that Michael and I, we are still in contact, he now lives in Melbourne, Australia, we’re still in contact. So, Michael and I decided we would build something like Cape Canaveral, so a rocket launching station in the hills behind the city that we lived in. So, we lived in a city called Adelaide in South Australia. It’s a coastal city. And there are hills, probably a good, you know, 10, 15 kilometres inland, there’s quite a sort of mountain range called the Mount Lofty Range.
And we were going to build a rocket launching pad there with all kinds of rockets and all kinds of things that go with it. Totally oblivious to how much this would cost, totally oblivious to any government planning controls. We were just going to build this thing there, and it was going to shoot rockets off every day.
Yeah. So that was, that was the dream. It never got, it never became a reality for some unknown reason, which I still cannot understand to this day. But to sort of give you the, to give you the perspective on who played which role in all of this.
Michael and I also used to be Batman and Robin. And he was Batman, and I was Robin so I was the number two in all of this. Yeah. Michael is now sort of semi-retired. He seems to make his living by dabbling in shares and bonds and stocks and so on and so forth.
And I was going to marry his sister, whose birthday is next week. I was going to marry, I was going to marry his sister, but somehow that never happened. So yeah, I had a couple of dreams.
Igor I hope Mary is not around.
Frank Sorry, no, no, Mary knows.
Igor I’m joking. I know she loves.
Ritesh So, Frank, so it was just a crush or?
Frank I think the term you would call it is puppy love.
Igor Puppy love?
Puppy love is sort of, I think Donny Osmond even sang a song about it. It was, what was it? Yeah, it was just, you know, childhood sweetheart who had no idea of, you know, what it all implies, you know, what marriage means, etc. I mean, had I known that then maybe I would have acted differently. But no, it was just kitty, you know, two kids, two kids having a, you know, a bit of a crush, but, you know, a kid crush, not with the full implications. So, yeah. So those are the dreams.
Frank No, I was just to ask if someone, like, should everyone answer or just Ismar and Frank?
Frank No, no, open. It’s open to everybody. Ismar and I are on the chopping block, but if anybody else wants to talk in our place, they are more than welcome to do so. The less I say, the better.
Igor Yeah. So, yeah, I like this question because I like to say that everything I planned in my life didn’t work. It was very good that it didn’t work. And I kind of share the same view with Ismar. I think I would be I’m very confident that I would be a much less happy person if everything I planted when I was like 18 years old, worked out because I had, like, very different perspectives. I didn’t know anything about life and the world. Like, I didn’t want to have kids. I didn’t want to have relationships. I wanted to work with a very regular job, nothing against regular jobs, but I don’t think it would make me happy. And then nothing worked out. And now I’m very happy. So that’s an interesting thought. Like when you are young, I don’t think that’s a good idea to plan the future when you are young. I think that’s sometimes tricky.
Frank But the question is, would you have been happy had all the dreams come true? You don’t really know. We can’t hear you. I think you ripped it.
Igor Yeah, I press the button. Sorry. Yeah. Like knowing what I know today, I don’t think I would be happy, but I just know now because I have more experience. So sometimes I see people like I have people in my family that they made a decision like a very important decision when they are like 17, 18 years old. For example, going to a certain kind of college because they thought that would be that that was the path to happiness. Then now they are on their thirties, and they think about that, that they didn’t have all the information they needed to take this decision. So, yeah, I’m just throwing a thought here. Like some we we expect people with 18 years old to know what they want, but they don’t have the information to take this decision.
Frank Right. Yeah. Yeah. And even earlier, sometimes because your whole schooling is predicated on, you know, a 10 year old already knowing what they want to do in 15, 20 years time.
Igor. And like, we don’t know anything like we adults. We don’t know what we want to do. Like, why do we expect like 18 years old to know? Right.
Frank And, you know, the beauty of being an old age pensioner, it’s actually totally unimportant. We can do what we want now. Nobody. Yeah. Oh, God. You know, he’s old. He’s an old man. He’s crazy. Just let him be. It’s a wonderful feeling of freedom. Yeah. Because we don’t have to prove anything anymore.
Igor I’m looking forward to this moment that I can just whatever.
Frank It’ll come quicker than you think, Igor. The problem is it tends to accelerate the older you get.
Igor Oh, wow.
Frank So careful what you say there. Ritesh, do you want to know any more about our deep darkness, deep darkest youth and hidden, hidden ideas, etc?
Ritesh Yeah, definitely. Just I wanted to ask, like, see, you told like, as Igor said, something not go as planned we do in life. But I just wanted to ask, like, is it hurts more not doing something and regretting or is it like you are doing and then regretting it?
Frank So that’s a brilliant question. Do I have any regrets not having done anything? Ismar, do you want to let me think about this?
Ismar And while going to Isma, I just catch up that he catches that he he wanted to dance. So, he ever tried dancing or he still wants to dance or he don’t got a chance with someone to dance?
Ritesh He didn’t catch you. So I wanted to ask, like, you told that I like to dance. So have you ever got a chance to dance with someone or you tried sometime that or you try to learn dancing?
Ismar I’m a weird guy because I like so many things and I’m not good at anything.
I think it’s terrible because I have met many people that don’t like so many things, but normally they are good at at least one thing. And myself, I like many, numerous, but I’m not good at anything. But for example, about dancing, I have enrolled myself in a school dance maybe for twice, but I’m so bad. And even about music, if you give me a million dollars to sing a complete song, I will lose the money because I don’t know how to sing as well. I have a charitable about things, about acts.
Frank The only thing that has a million dollars here, huh? It’s a good thing nobody has a million dollars amongst us.
Ritesh Maybe someone has, some people have hidden. So Ismar, you like to be perfect like you at this age. Do you think like you wanted to be perfect in something or is it your nature that you want to do something perfectly?
Ismar Yes, I think, although we say that perfection doesn’t exist for human beings, I would like to do many things in a perfect way. And as Frank know, I’d like to speak in public farewell and writing and many other things. Maybe the list it’s very long. But I have to live with myself as I am I have no other choice.
Frank Well, I mean, you’re only 62, Ismar.
Ismar No, as I don’t believe in happiness, I think it’s better to not believe in perfection as well. And I want to lose my time pursuing it.
Igor Once I read something interesting that there is this like mainstream message that perfectionism is bad. But this I read this sentence somewhere that you should enjoy the process of trying to be perfect, but you should enjoy the process, not the perfect thing you are pursuing, because then you have something to work for and you have something to try for. I think that’s an interesting thought.
Like, you don’t have to enjoy being perfect because you never enjoy anything because you will never be perfect. But the process of being perfect, it’s interesting, right?
Ismar I think that the most important is to be a better person. It doesn’t matter what field than yesterday. I think it’s our mission to be better and better.
Igor Good point.
Frank Do you agree with that, which is that we should be a better person?
Ritesh Yeah, I think so. But once again, I just, in my opinion, that perfection is just, you don’t want to get criticized by others. You wanted to make sure that some people should not have anything to say about what you say.
Frank Okay. Of course, I suppose we could actually turn this around. Ritesh, you are 27 and you will be 28 imminently. Is that correct? I vaguely remember somewhere, what, December the 31st is your birthday, if I remember correctly?
Ritesh January.
Frank Okay, so 30th. Okay, so what dreams and aspirations does somebody of your age have today?
Ritesh So, it’s now for me, I see my colleagues or my friends. So, before, during college, we used to have wanted to be, do something good. We wanted to be, some people wanted to be scientists, they wanted to be an engineer, a good engineer. But right now, I spoke with all of my friends and I see they are all worth money. They want more money because they think that this money brings happiness and it will bring happiness. So, as of now, people want to get more money. Maybe they don’t care about what they used to think, what they wanted to be. But now, everything is about getting happiness through money.
Igor Why do you think it’s changed? See, when we were in college and maybe here days, we were not completely aware of the situation all around us. We were happy that whatever we have, that is sufficient. You had support from your parents. But now you feel that, no, it is not enough and it is required to grow in the society. People are giving value to you if you have a certain amount of money and other things. Maybe in the same case, it happens in the relationship also. We have seen people who are breaking up because of their financial condition are not good, they are living. So, because of this, people are thinking like that.
Frank So, the way you formulated your answer indicates to me that you do not follow this trend, that money is not the be-all and end-all for you. Nice to have, but it’s not going to be a critical issue for you. Is that correct?
Ritesh I think about this because a lot of people I have seen, they have a lot of money but they are not happy with that. So, it is not a case, but for our generation, they want that.
Frank Okay. So, Sebastian, you’re gearing up to ask a question.
Sebastian, Yeah. I try to follow the conversation that I had no idea since yet what I should answer or how I can jump in, but now I have a small comment. Yesterday, I saw on a TV channel, it’s a documentation about houses, real houses and how they look like.
And there was an older woman, I think, around about 80, and she knew when she was young that she will not get a lot of money when she’s retired. And she tried to find a way how to finance her retirement, and it was really interesting. She showed her house and the house. So, she went to the bank and sold a small apartment, and she needs additional money. And she built a house, a really small one, so just four to four meters without electricity. She had just a small, I think it’s a sister, no, a tank. Is it a tank? Okay. So, a very small bathroom or something like that.
Yeah. So, where she can get the water. And she had a bathroom, that means there was a shower. Yeah, sort of a bowl, a bath. Yeah, just a bowl. And then on the ground, there was just a porcelain where you can step in and do your shit, pee and so on. And she’s just firing this four to four meters house with a small oven or a small heater. Yeah. And she also is cooking everything on this small heater. And so, she said what she’s consuming about how many, what she’s paying for the wood.
In a year, it was not a lot of things. But what I found really interesting was, and to come back to the topic, is she find a way to be happy without having a big house, a lot of money to spend for it. And she looks really happy. And she had a small dog and she was living since 30 years now there or 20 years without electricity, without flowing water.
Frank And yeah, so basically the first person who lived in a tiny house off grid.
Sebastian Yeah. Now she has a small solar panel just for loading the mobile phone. And she had a small lamp on her bed that she said that it’s a little bit easier just to use candles, So it makes it a little bit easier. But the lamp is also loaded from the solar panel. And I’m not sure if I were able to live like that, but it looks not wrong for me. You know, it was interesting. Maybe it’s a good, someday maybe it’s a test. I don’t know if it should be without electricity. I’m not sure. But why not if the kids have left the house and you have, let’s say, 200 square meters of space. We just live on 50 square meters.
Frank In which country was this?
Sebastian It was in Germany. It was on SWR, I think, on the TV channel. And every week they show different houses, different stories about it. Another one was on the Mosel River. It was interesting. So you see a lot of different stories, how people restorated the house, for example, give them a personal style or personal note. And this was one story.
Igor Yeah, that’s funny how I haven’t seen one, like, proof that happiness is correlated with the amount of things you have. Like, I just can’t see a proof of that. But that’s what everyone seeks. That’s very funny. There’s this popular study. Probably you guys have heard about it, but it basically suggests that money is important until a certain point in which you have comfort, like the basic comfort.
Right. So like a heater, like you are not feeling cold, you are not feeling hungry, you are not feeling in danger, basically. But passing this point, money doesn’t add up like one percent in your happiness, which kind of supports the point of this lady. If you have the basic things like that, you don’t feel in danger, you don’t feel cold, you don’t feel hungry, money will not really help you.
That’s very obvious for me, at least from my experience, things I watch around me, things I have been learning by reading and studying research. And still, that’s what everyone seeks. Right. That’s very funny.
I think in maybe not one hundred years, but maybe one thousand years, people will think about our generation and think like, oh, like, why? Why are they so dumb?
Frank It would be interesting to be around in a thousand years time. That’s what happens. Wow. Ritesh has just reappeared. One of the things that us old age pensioners seem to think, and I know I can speak a little bit for Ismar because we actually did discuss this a couple of months ago, when we were kids, and I don’t mean sort of toddlers, I mean, you know, 10, 15 year old kids, we didn’t seem to have as much fear of the future as the young generation does.
And I’m sort of looking at Ritish, I’m looking a little bit at Igor, but Igor, you’re sort of over the threshold already. But also when I look at the teenagers coming through now, they seem to be afraid more.
I’ll start with you, Ritish. Are you afraid of the future? It’s a very global question, not your personal future, but maybe you can speak better about that. But are you afraid of the future, this continuous negative discussion about conflicts, about climate change, about politics and power and whatever else? Open a newspaper and you just, it falls into your face. So are you afraid of the future?
Ritesh So I think that with growing, like if I look at five years back, and today I see that I’m more worried about future than what I used to be in our 20s, like when I was 20. So I feel that with time I’m getting more knowledge, I’m getting more knowledge about the society, how it is working, how the country works, what type of conflict is going on in different parts of the country, state and all. Because of that, I think I’m more worried and I fear about my future, definitely.
Frank OK, before we go there, Igor, sort of as the, still relatively young, but over the threshold with a totally different background and a lot of success to your name and a totally different outlook.
Igor Really? I don’t know about that.
Frank There’s about 10 hours of our conversations in the Brida podcast.
Igor I’m a good marketer. You have to remember that. I am better at telling stories than actually living them. I agree. I agree that young people are more afraid of the future. I think they have more concerns about the future. Talking about myself. No, I don’t think I am very afraid of the future. I think things will be kind of the same. Like if you think about, let’s say, 1000 years ago, it didn’t really change. If you think about that, like we have other means of communicating, we have other means of living. But like the reasons we live in, like the big institutions that rule the world, they are kind of the same. Right. So we have to pay taxes. We have to work. We have to like governments go to war every time. So I don’t think it will change very significantly. So I’m not that scared. I think it will be kind of the same with different problems, but not something that really changed the way we live. So my answer is no, I’m not very afraid. But I agree with young people.
Like I have a sister. My sister is like 21 years old. I have cousins. I have brothers who are young as well. And I can feel that they worry about things that my generation didn’t worry about. So that’s something sad.
Frank OK, so moving up to the next generation, Sebastian, rapidly approaching middle age in a couple of weeks’ time. Are you afraid of the future?
Sebastian What about the huge change of climate change?
Igor Is the question for me? Yeah, I’m not very concerned with that, I think.
Sebastian No. Why not?
Igor Yeah. I think like as humans, we’re gonna get along with that. Like we have technology and the way to live with the same degree of comfort we live. Of course, as always, poor people will always suffer the consequences, but it will always suffer about anything. So it’s sad, but that’s reality. And I don’t really worry about the planet.
Like the planet is around like for four billion years. Like I don’t worry that much. Like if the humans disappeared like in, I think, 35 years, the planet would be exactly the same before humans existed.
So I’m not that concerned, to be honest. I think in terms of technology, we will be able to keep our comfort level. And in terms of environment, like care about the planet, I think the planet will be fine as well.
But I believe it’s happened, just to be clear. I’m not aimed at climate change. I believe it’s happening. I’m just not that concerned.
Sebastian That was the reason why I’m asking you. But okay, that’s really positive.
Frank So I’m going to throw the ball to Ismar. Ismar, with your experience and your wisdom and your age, we have Ritesh sitting here who is concerned, maybe afraid of the future, of something that he possibly could not control. Ismar, do you have any advice from your perspective that you might want to share with Ritesh to reduce his fear in any shape, size or form?
Ismar I think I’m a mixing of Igor and the Ritesh opinion. I think global warming is a reality, but people who can do something to change this, although some scientists say that it’s not the result of human beings’ behaviour, there is some opposition. And which one is correct? I don’t know. But in my opinion, the planet is hotter, warmer. And I think we can do our part. If recycling your garbage is something important, recycle. If you can reuse some objects, do it. And don’t consume as much as our nowadays ideology, trying to put it on our minds.
I think it’s necessary to reflect about these issues and take your own decisions and not damage the planet and anything around you. It doesn’t matter if it’s people, another human, life beings or any kind of part of this planet.
As I said some minutes ago, we have to try to be a better person and do what is of effect to us.
And as I talked to Frank yesterday, Frank thinks that I’m concerned something about that I can change and it’s a cartridge of mine. But my advice is do what is possible and don’t be worried about what you can change. I think it’s the best way to live well. I think it’s what Igor is saying.
And probably if our species will disappear, for sure the planet will be here in the same way. And maybe for some centuries or millennia, some other living beings will appear here to replace us. Because I think our species is not the most important in this planet. We think we are, but we are just a part of that.
Frank So, Ritesh, you said that you were concerned about the future, and everybody jumped on the climate change bandwagon.
Sebastian I raised it.
Frank And then everybody jumped on that bandwagon because it seems to be the dominating issue. I have to ask you, Ritesh, is that what you are concerned about or is there something else that you are concerned about that none of us would actually think about because we have different perspectives?
Ritesh So, the more I read, like, I’m concerned about all aspects of life, not only the climate change, but the human behaviour, how we are doing, how we are with one another and how people are treating others. Also, this gives what kind of, I feel sad to see people who don’t care about their elderly people who are old, and they don’t care about their opinion also.
So, this also makes, because the society is becoming disrespectful there for the people who are older than you and they are not living. They think that I know everything, and these guys are people who don’t have any knowledge what is going on right now. So, because of this also, I feel sad and worried about the future.
And as everyone is talking about the climate change, yes, it’s reality, but I feel that in our generation, it will be like that. Maybe our future generation, maybe our kids, grandkids will be more affected by this climate change and we will not go back. It will be something else is going to appear from these changes, because you don’t have power capacity to turn back this, what damage we have done till now. And it is a part of the universe plan and we can’t do it.
But I wanted to jump to you guys and ask some personal questions. So, at this age, how you guys motivate yourself and what makes you happy at this time, at this age? Can you ask somebody specific because otherwise none of us will answer?
I know that Isma is say that he don’t believe in happiness, but if he likes to answer then most welcome, he is most welcome.
Ismar There is a Brazilian guy who is considered a philosopher, and Igor probably knows him. He is called Mario Sergio Cortela. He says that you have to do the best with the condition you have. When you have better conditions, you have to try the better.
I think I’m not a person that, as I told some minutes ago, that I dreamed about many things and I didn’t do a lot of things. But I lived in a way that I tried to use and to do the best I could. If I don’t have or I couldn’t be more successful, I think it’s related about my personal limitations. It’s not the matter, it’s related to my physical condition or my intellectual condition or even financial condition.
In a whole, I think I did the best I could. And I’m not sad about what I am today. I think when I compare with many people I know or I have met, I consider that I am a positive man in this world.
And I wouldn’t say that I have been making the difference, but I try to do my best. And people who analyze me or are analyzing, I think that the most of them, I agree with the image that I have of myself.
Frank Okay, we, as we say in radio programs, we’re running out of time.
Ritesh I think we got off the topic, but yeah, some positive things we learned from this.
Frank Well, I actually know something that three other people in this forum do not know. But there is actually a link to this, to what we discussed today, to next week’s topic. So we can actually continue this discussion, albeit on a slightly different level.
But thank you, Ritesh, for a thoughtful and thought-provoking set of questions, most of which I successfully could evade in answering. But it’s always actually quite interesting to be at the receiving end of this sort of experience. Because it’s normally me who steers the questions and steers the conversation. And it’s actually an interesting experience to be at the receiving end of this.
It’s quite frightening. So you guys must sometimes be really, why is he asking these horrible questions? I’m going to give Igor the last word, because you are at the beginning of the day, we are at the end of the day. So, Igor, what is your thought and last word of the day in all of this?
Igor Okay, I didn’t expect for that, so I will just answer the last question Ritesh posed. So something I have been thinking this year a lot, and it has been successful, I want to increase the percentage of times I feel present in my life. That’s what makes me happy. So I want to increase this rate. I want to feel present the most I can. I will leave you guys with this thought. Yeah, that’s nice. Thank you. How does one do that?
Igor Yeah, exactly. We would need more time.
Frank Okay, this was the Philosophy 101 course. Thank you for listening to us, ladies and gentlemen. Okay, so next week, not on Tuesday as per usual, but on Wednesday, a very, very special topic. I’m really looking forward to it. And I can’t wait till next Wednesday when it comes here.
Igor For sure, I’m excited.
Frank And there are actually links to today and then the week after. It’s actually a nice close to the year. So, gentlemen, have a great morning, day, evening. See you all at the respective times and again next Wednesday.
Thanks a lot.
Bye-bye.
Bye.
Thank you.
Bye.
Thanks.
Thank you.