Are you a bookworm? Whilst planning this podcast, the thought that not talking about books did hover in the back of my mind, but it didn’t really push itself into the foreground. But, there is a whole different approach to getting information. Ismar is the bookworm, but Sebastian isn’t. We explore the differences. The podcast was recorded on 28.02.2023.
Transcript
Frank Welcome everybody, Ismar in Campo Grande and Sebastian shivering away in cold Germany. We’re going to talk about books today, Unleash the Bookworm in You, and it’s part of the WOW program. And I have a list of questions that I’m going to ask each individual person and we’ll see where it takes us. And I’m going to start with you, Ismar. Very simple question. Can you tell us what you think makes a great book, a fantastic book, a brilliant book, whatever adjective you want to give it?
Ismar Suppose that it’s a technical book. If he teaches me something, I think it’s great. And if it’s a fictional one, I like to read an exciting story, well-written, which means it’s not perfect because it’s impossible for someone to know everything from grammar, but I don’t like something that it’s not well-written. And I like a vocabulary that’s not so offensive. And that stimulate me to, because even a hundred-page book, it’s not possible to read just when we sit once, maybe you have some days more. And the book that invite me to continue reading till at the end. And if it’s really good, my tendency is to recommend it to someone else that I think it could be interesting. If I don’t know if the person likes the subject, but in general, if it is a good book, in my opinion, I recommend it to someone.
Frank Sounds good. So? we will come out with a list of recommendations by the end of the show from you. Yeah. What about you, Sebastian? What makes a book great for you?
Sebastian What is a book? What do you mean? What do you mean by a book? No, sorry. I don’t want to be a game spoiler. Is this correct?
Frank A spoil sport.
Sebastian You don’t want to be spoiled?
Frank Yes. In English it’s called a spoil sport.
Sebastian Okay. Spoil sport. But I don’t know. I read in my life, I don’t know, 10 books. I don’t know. But I know this is not good and maybe this is a chance that I start reading because I’m getting so many tips what I could read, but strength is not, I have no idea. My wife sometimes reads a book, but I don’t read books. So how to start? Next question.
Frank Well, that’s going to be interesting, this one. I know why I’m not reading at the moment. I love reading, but I’m pushing 14-to-16-hour work days. So? by the time I get to stop, I’m just simply too exhausted to concentrate. But there are actually, and this is, there’s nothing wrong with it, a lot of people who don’t read. So why do you not, I mean, of course you read, you read documents, you read work things for work, et cetera, but sitting down on the sofa with a book in your hand is not your thing.
Sebastian So yeah, I tried in the past to read a book in the bed, but when you are absolutely tired and exhausted to concentrate on the book, it’s really difficult. And that was the reason why I’m only read, I don’t know, 10 pages. And then, so there was no progress in reading a book and I know the reason I’m looking too much TV. That’s the reason. And if I want to change it, I should turn off the television and pick up a book and read it. So, but I think it is, what is the name? Convenience.
Frank It’s convenient.
Sebastian Yeah. Okay. I’m honest.
Frank No, no, no, no. That’s the reality of the situation is that TV or Netflix or streaming services or anything like that are pushing books away. And it’s just a different way of getting informed or getting stories. So, would you find that you are able to inform yourself more quickly or that you can, if you watch a movie, maybe a 90 minute, two hour movie, that it’s more efficient or better than sitting down and reading a book over maybe a week, two months, three months, a year?
Sebastian First, I think maybe we should separate the technical knowledge that I’m consuming or that somebody is consuming and a good story. So, I spend a lot of time to inform myself about new topics and going deeply into new topics. But most of the time I’m informing myself via YouTube videos or different channels, programs, different programs, on pages or different forums, discussion forums. So, I spend a lot of time with new topics so that we already had this topic photovoltaic, or different things I’m really interested in. But so that many people are telling me, you are absolutely crazy. Why do you spend hours over hours with new projects? Why do you want to know this so deeply? But the other part is, I think, read a book with a story or a thriller or something like that. This is something I don’t do because, yeah, there’s such a big offer in the TV. And I also know that from a book you get more details. But what I’m doing is, most of the time we are looking series, that you are able to bring more information as in the film into a series, that the story is built more deeply. And so, I know that this is not the same and I think I should maybe try it when we are on holidays in two weeks. Maybe a good chance to try it again. Yeah.
Frank Okay. Well, there’s actually a good question there. Just out of curiosity, Sebastian, how many channels do you have in your cable? I presume you have cable or satellite. Approximately how many channels do you have access to?
Sebastian Access to 60. I think I’m consuming, what is it? 8 or 10.
Frank 8 to 10 channels. And do you have a smart TV? Does that mean that your TV is connected to the internet?
Sebastian Yeah. I’m following on YouTube. I’m just counting.
Frank 18 YouTube channels. Okay.
Sebastian Different topics. Okay.
Frank All right. So Ismar, you have the chance to convert. You have the chance to convert Sebastian. Maybe in his looks of scepticism coming from Sebastian here. Sebastian feels a little bit, I’m playing with words here. He feels a little bit guilty. Maybe he should read more and maybe during his holiday in a couple of weeks’ time, he might attempt this. So, Ismar, what helped you to start reading whenever that was as a child or maybe in later years in life? What helped you?
Ismar I suppose that I started reading late. I learned how to read when I was eight and the first whole book that I remember I read, I was 12. It was a homework and I passed most of my vacation in the middle of the year in July reading a book. Until today, I remember something from this book because here in Brazil, many teachers say that it’s not a good suggestion to oblige students to read. But I disagree because I started reading like an obligation and I think it’s something fantastic. But my suggestion to Sebastian, although reading or, for example, drinking alcohol, the majority of people in my country and maybe all around the world drink alcohol, but you aren’t obliged to drink alcohol if you don’t like. It’s the same about reading. If you don’t like, no problem. It’s your choice. You have freedom to do it or not or to not do it. But if you really want, my suggestion is choose a subject that you like. Go preferably to a physical bookstore. Ask first to the clerk for some suggestion and begin with an easy book because if you buy something that is very complex, even if you like the subject, maybe you can get frustrated. Put the book in your briefcase, your knapsack, wherever you go, you have your book close to you. For example, if you have to wait someone for a meeting and you don’t have something more interesting to read, open your book and start reading it. Because the most of my reading, I do like that because as Frank knows, I spend most of my time taking care of my mom. She’s 85. And I take care to a lot of doctors, some exams, and I always have a book. And if I have to wait and I have a book, I don’t think that I’m wasting my time waiting for the doctor or waiting to have the exams done. Then I don’t get anxious because I know that I’m learning something, I have learned some vocabulary, and I can observe how that person writes and maybe I can improve my writing. And I think it’s something very interesting. I always have a book together with you and you start reading. But don’t read so many pages for a day. Start with two or three pages. And after you enjoy more, you can increase the number of pages you can read every day.
Sebastian Okay. Yes, maybe I should try it. What I did, I remember now in my last holidays, my wife always told me in the past why when you are not reading, choose podcast, listen to a podcast series, for example. I think this is also a new, I don’t know. Yeah, it’s coming up the last years. But I know that it’s not the same when you see letters and something is written down on a page. It is different. And I know that. But maybe it is something between those words. I don’t know. For example.
Sebastian But a question back to both of you, what do you think about podcasts?
Frank Well, there’s a sort of amateur producer of podcasts. I find them fantastic. And listening to several podcasts when I go walking or something perfectly. Okay. I think they are brilliant.
Sebastian Is it a substitute to a book or can it be a substitute to a book?
Ismar, do you want to answer that?
Ismar And I would like that you compliment my answer, please. Okay. Okay. For example, Sebastian, if you read, you have to use many of your sense. First, use your sight, use much more your brain when you read than when you watch a movie or you listen to a podcast and you can construct image, how the things that you are reading, they are happening in your mind. And probably they are different from the ones who wrote it because your brain, your mind is different from the author or someone else that reads that specific book. And as I told you, you can observe how the sentences were built. You can say, Oh, this sentence is very well written. Oh, this sentence not good. His grammar. It’s okay. This guy is very intelligent because he can put some different ideas about the subject. Then a book is a place or a line of a lecture that you can contact someone that lives very far away from you. And probably you never meet that person. Then I think it’s a fantastic opportunity to have this kind, this way, this opportunity to achieve some knowledge. And when we have a podcast, you don’t have to read them. You don’t use your sight, just use your ears. Of course, you can construct some images, but in my idea is not something scientifically that I’ve read. I have read in something. But I think that when you read, you have to use more your, your body, your capacity in a whole than when you listen to listen to something or when you watch something. It’s my opinion. Frank, please.
Frank I would say you actually need to differentiate between podcasts and audio books. So podcasts tend to be factual radio shows, which you can listen to when you want to. And I listen to many podcasts from a Swiss/English magazine called Monocle. I’ll put the link at the bottom of the transcript later. And they produce a wide variety of podcasts on cultural things, on city development, political things, economic things, really a nice range of podcasts. And you can listen to those and keep yourself informed. And personally, for me, the reason I like podcasts is because I stare at a screen from morning until night. So, the last thing I want to do is use my eyes. And so just being able to switch off the screen and using my ears instead is a welcome break.
That said, I had my hospital appointment yesterday, Ismar, and you said, go, you know, sitting in a hospital and, and reading a book. I read a book yesterday while I was in the hospital. It was rubbish, but it certainly was a relaxing part of the day.
Coming to audio books, these are of course adaptations or abbreviated versions of books, modern fiction or classical literature. And I think what a really good audio book can do is it can bring the book to life. And of course, an audio book might have sound effects in the background. So, if there is a description of nature, you might hear the rustling of the leaves or the wind blowing through or something like that.
There is a fantastic book written by a person called Vikram Seth. He’s an Indian author, and he wrote a book called A Suitable Boy. The book is about 1,500 pages thick. And it, I’ve read it. It is, it describes the story of a mother who is trying to find a suitable husband for her, one of her daughters. In 1950s India. India had just become independent from the United Kingdom. And there was a lot of discussion, political turmoil, et cetera, et cetera. And so the book, the book goes into very enormous detail about the politics of India at this point of time.
The BBC in England made a fantastic series of podcasts, which really dramatized and brought this book to life, breathtakingly well done. And about four or five years ago, the BBC then made a DVD series, a six-episode DVD series of this story. So, on the one sense, if you compare the three, you have a very thick book going into enormous detail of politics, of social life in India, and of course, a romantic story that weaves its way through it. But people will be overwhelmed by the size of the book. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a 1,500-page book. So, if somebody doesn’t like reading or is intimidated by such a book, they can listen to the podcast, sorry, to the audio book, and it might motivate them to read the book, or they can watch the TV series.
And this is what happened with Mary. Mary watched the TV series and then she went back and read the book. And of course, then she could visualize the characters a bit more. So, I think everything has its place and it depends where it leads one and what one can do with it. The book will always be the original. And people also say the film is never as good as the book. If a book has been made for a film and, sometimes they make a movie and then they write the book afterwards. So they adapt the screenplay and make it make it a novel. So, and certainly audio books. I enjoy listening to audio books because it brings this three-dimensional twist to it. And it just makes me not having to use my eyes all the time. Yeah. So, there’s also that health advantage or health factor for me. Yeah. So maybe listening to audio books for a podcast is something that would do, would be something for you, Sebastian.
Getting away from the, from the TV. Yeah. Yeah.
Ismar I think there is one great advantage of a podcast that you can listen to it and do another thing different. You don’t have to stay standing. And just pay attention to the book and read. For example, you can cook your dinner and listen, listen to some broadcast or to an audio book.
Frank I mean, I mean, when I walk at the, in the evening, I mean, after this, I will go for a walk and I will take by my phone with me and I’ll listen to one of the monocle podcasts. Yeah. And it’s just, it’s just a nice way to, to, to do two things with, to do two things at the same time.
Ismar So excuse me, Frank. I’d like to ask a question to Sebastian. Sure. And how about the news? Don’t you like to read the news on internet? What has happened in Germany, Europe or around the world?
Sebastian We have a daily newsletter. It’s getting up to down in our house. It’s not our newsletter or newspaper. And it’s, I don’t know, at 10 o’clock it’s, it’s, it’s laying behind our, in front of our door. But we, both of us just, so we, we don’t have breakfast. So, we just have a, both of us have just a quick look, just, you know,
Frank we just leaf through the newspaper or the, whatever it is,
Sebastian we just leaf to the newsletter, a newspaper and have just a quick look. But yes, every day we are, we are looking on TV, the news. So, and many times I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m looking, Frank, you know, that Phoenix, for example, that they are getting more, they get more in details of stories and, and they, they always have a interview partner for a topic and there is an interview about a special topic. And so I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m really interested in news and in, in also historical backgrounds of things, for example.
So just, just to give you an example right now, months ago, I started informing myself about the USSR, what is it?
Frank The Soviet Union, USSR.
Sebastian I know something about it from the past in my history lessons, but so then I, I’m just reworking every single little bit when it comes, comes up, for example. And so, it’s not that I’m not interested in political things or in the news, but I’m absolutely sure when you’re sitting down on breakfast and you’re reading a newspaper and spending one hour and 30 minutes with it, you, you, you are saving more details in your brain about the topic or you, you are remember more things and informing yourself more deeply. But the question is, do you want to spend time and, and does it fit into your daily routine?
Frank Routine.
Sebastian Thank you. But if you want, you can make it fit.
Frank You can, yeah, you can make it fit.
Sebastian It depends on yourself as always. Sorry. Long, long answer.
Frank No, no, no, no. So, so getting, we’re getting back to, to the the to the books and what’s becoming very clear is that you have an enormous choice of of possibilities available. You can watch something on television, you can read a magazine, you can listen to a podcast, you can read a traditional book, you can, you can listen to audio books. And it just goes on from there. And then you have I mean, if you go to a German railway station, all the major German railway stations have bookshops. And I am always fascinated by the choice of magazines available. I mean, it is mind blowing, probably 1000 to 2000 publications in a good railway station bookshop, one to 2000 different magazines on any subject you can think of. And it’s not just one magazine per subject, it’s about 10 magazines, and the more popular sort of food culture, food, cooking recipes, and things like that you find in a whole army of these things, politics, economics, you name it, it’s all there. And someone has to actually buy these things, and somebody has to read these things. And then years ago, I went to the Frankfurt Book Fair, which is the biggest book fair in the world. It covered what 15, halls of the Frankfurt trade fair complex. And I think I cut managed to cover about five of them. And then I just got so exhausted, because it’s just like row and row of small huts the size of a cubicle in an office full of people trying to sell books and people interested in books. It’s amazing. It is absolutely amazing. Yes. And
Sebastian I think I’m a little younger as you, but I think you can remember, I don’t know, 30 years ago or 40 years ago, 40 years ago, 40 years ago, you had, I don’t know, three or four television channels. And I think, yeah, maybe there is, yeah, maybe at that time, more people decided to read the book because there was not such a big offer in different topics or in interesting topics. And now you have, what you said, Frank, or what I told you then, 50 channels. Okay. At the end, you are looking 10. But most of the time, my wife and me are saying, okay, nothing is in TV, switch on Netflix or something else. And we are looking a series. And then when you don’t find a series that you are interested in, then you switch to your YouTube channels and have a look what’s new every week. There are two, three threads, three programs, contributions. Yeah. One or two contributions a week with a new one. And then you have a look on it. And some of them are one hour long, for example. And so, the offer is so big or so huge. So I think it’s totally different when you compare it 40 or 50 years ago. And I think when you start reading 30, 40, 50 years ago, maybe it is something that you are progressing because you get a feeling that it’s much better for you or that the information can be much better saved or reminded. But when you don’t make this experience, then maybe choose other sources. I don’t know.
Frank So taking all this choice, Ismar, if I remember rightly, you are without a television. You live in this luxurious bubble of not having a television. I’m not sure how much you watch YouTube, but I get the impression that you are a bookworm. You like to sit and read books. So how do you, when you are reading, how do you choose which book to read next? And have you ever reread the book twice or three times?
Ismar I don’t remember so many books that I have read many, many times, but maybe you both get surprised. I have read the Little Prince maybe five or six times in Portuguese, in French, in English, and in different times in my life. And I have given it for many people, for example, some girlfriend, because the first time I read this book, I was maybe around 20. It was a girlfriend who introduced me to it. And I don’t remember some other, but maybe I have read some other book twice.
Frank So assuming that you’re reading a book now, you finished the book at some point in the near future. How are you going to select your next book? Do you have a pile of unread books somewhere or do you go to the library and get another book or what do you do?
Ismar Normally, as I attended to some activity at the university, people comment, then I can go to internet and read something about it. If I have read some book from that author before, maybe I don’t like his style, then I don’t get interested to buy it. But if some author that I have read before, and I know that he has a new book, probably I will get interested in read it.
Frank Okay. So it’s where you find yourself, where you get information that leads you to going to another, to follow that source, yeah?
Ismar Yeah. When I was at university, I read a part of book from Ernaux, the last one literature Nobel Prize. And I searched on internet for which book he has won the Nobel Prize, but I didn’t find the answer. Then I found that she has a new book, and it is already translated into Portuguese. I got interested in read it, but nowadays I have many other things to do, but I didn’t buy it because of that. If not, I will have bought it.
Frank Is the fact that Portuguese is not one of the main languages spoken on the planet a problem that you find that not much is translated into Portuguese?
Ismar In fact, I think that Portuguese is one of the most important languages in the world because it’s the sixth most spoken language in the world. But I think our editorial market is not so big as, for example, for English market or French or Spanish market. And another point, I suppose that Brazilian people don’t read a lot.
Frank So it might have a large following in terms of the number of people who speak Portuguese. But if you, I don’t know how many countries there are where Portuguese is the official language, four, five, six, maybe.
Ismar I suppose seven or eight, I suppose.
Frank Something like that. Yeah. Question to both of you and we’ll start with Sebastian. And in your case, Sebastian, we can probably broaden the horizon a little bit. If you were to have a conversation, a chat with an author, a person who’s written a book that you like or has contributed to a TV program or podcast or whatever this world is, who would it be and why? Who would you like to sit down, have a cup of coffee with and say, tell me about what you’ve written or produced?
Ismar The question is, yes. And I’m just, for example, listen to different YouTube channels. Maybe there are some people that I want to meet and talk to them, for example, in this special case. But yes, I think I take this example for the YouTube channels because I don’t listen many times to, sometimes I listen to podcasts, but more to YouTube channels. So, for example, there are some lawn guests that I want to meet, that I want to meet. There’s, for example, the guy in Australia that is really interesting for me. It looks really, I don’t know how to say it. Really
Frank fascinating.
Sebastian Yeah. You’re, you’re fascinated by fascinating.
Ismar Excuse me, who is the Australian guy
Sebastian for your explanation is my I’m, I’m, I’m looking regularly something from Australia. He’s, he’s working at a golf course and who’s already creating an old golf course on his, yeah. Property, property. Yeah. So I’m, so he’s, you see the development from, from, from scratch to, to the finished golf course. And the guy is really interesting, really funny. And, and he also has a lot of, of, of knowledge and, but there’s also a German person in Germany, for example. So maybe one, one, one day we will have a conversation. So it’s a lot on community and there are different people here in Germany, in the States, for example, there is another channel I’m, I’m following. So yes, maybe, why not meet these guys and have a conversation one time.
Frank You can, you can compare notes on grass.
Sebastian But that is not absolutely comparable. What, what I, I did in the past here is another level. It’s absolutely crazy.
Frank Igor, who would you like to meet? Sorry. Isma, who would you like to meet? I would have many options. For example, if I started from United States, probably I would like to have a conversation with Francis Fukuyama. It’s an American, a Japanese American philosopher. And in Latin America, probably from Peru, Marco Vargas Llosa is an old author. And in Brazil, probably some writers, I have met some, one of them, but it’s not possible to have a long conversation. Someone who is called the Newton Atun. And, and why not Vladimir Putin, if he pleased me to explain why he has such a kind of war against Ukraine and making all the world suffering because from his, I would say ego. Yeah. He’s a bad attitude that has made many, much suffering for Ukrainian and all the country. Maybe I could understand his reason.
Sebastian I think the reason is really, really simple. I think Frank, what do you think?
Ismar Power?
Frank Power is the root cause of a lot of problems. And I once listened to an interview with a photographer who took a picture of Putin and it was Putin has this vision of a grand Russia, a grand Soviet Union, going back to Catherine the Great. And for some reason he has delusions of history. But it is, it is at the end of the day power. And I think that that goes for any politician. Most politicians become seduced by power and then find it difficult to leave. It doesn’t matter which political persuasion they are. Of course, you have politicians, if they become heads of state, they have fixed term presidencies. So that after two terms, like here in France and in the United States, these people can no longer have the ultimate power of their country. They have to do something else then. But it would be interesting, Ismar, to see you and Vladimir Putin sitting opposite each other in this enormous, long table, this white table that he has in the Kremlin, I think eight meters from one between the two of you, would be quite a picture to see. So, but I’m not aware if Putin has written any books and if he has, they probably won’t be on the bestseller list.
Last question. Gentlemen, starting with you, Isma, if you were to write a book. You have a blog, so you are starting to do that. If you were to write a book, what genre would it be?
Ismar Excuse me?
Frank What genre would it be? What category would it be?
Ismar I have been trying to write since I was 14 and I would say more than 45 years. But since now I suppose that my writing aren’t worth to be published, I suppose. I have taken part in some writing contests. I was never the winner, but I have classified from some phase to another phase, but I wasn’t a winner. I’d like to write a novel, I suppose.
Frank Can you tell us a little bit the plot? I have think about how cats and dogs get to dominate people.
Frank Oh, I can help you with that. I’ve got three cats that dominate our household.
Ismar Here in Brazil, I suppose that 90% of houses have a cat or a dog, I suppose. I think it’s something unbelievable. Cats and dogs are dominating the world.
Sebastian That’s a real occupation.
Frank It’s a really interesting thought here. Sebastian, I think you would probably write the penultimate guide of growing grass. I don’t mean the weed that you can smoke, but the grass that you sit in front of and admire because it’s a beautiful piece of landscape.
Sebastian Maybe I should think about it. I don’t know if my knowledge is wide enough.
Frank You can research it.
Sebastian I don’t know about which topic I would write for the question.
This is actually an interesting exercise. I have one client who is not in the community, and we have been writing a story, a series of stories based around a fictitious character called Vicky. I brought Vicky to life a couple of years ago. Vicky is a, what’s the word? I can think of the French word. No, no. She’s a caterer and she has this catering business in the town of Brida near Papignon on the French Spanish border. She went to England and explored English cooking. Geneviève, this is the name of my client, and I have for the last year been writing about Vicky exploring the food scene in Burgundy.
The book, the story is, we’re coming to the end. It’s about 12 chapters long. We’ve sort of written the first draft and then I’m going to clear it up a little bit and then find some pictures and Mary will then provide the audio file to it and will probably publish it in about two to three months.
The way we did this is actually we chose a town in Burgundy and then we based the book on a menu that Vicky had. She has a three-course menu of typical cuisine from the area. And then she has a little bit of a flirt with the waiter of the restaurant, and he then takes her, or she and the owner of the hotel where she’s staying in, take her to the suppliers of this restaurant. So, we go and visit a snail farm. We go and visit a cow farm. We go and visit a mustard shop, etc. And we took the ideas out of websites of real existing business in around the town that Vicky stays in. And we created this fictitious story just by looking at the pictures, reading the descriptions and then generating something out of that. It is a very interesting way of going about this. And so maybe Ismar, your dream could come true. We can write about world domination of cats or maybe how cats and dogs travel through Brazil and explore parts of Brazil or something like that.
We can do this as a project together with Geneviève because she now has the experience of doing this. Yeah. So that might be a collaborative project that we can work. And then maybe in about 12 month’s time, the two of you could publish this book to the Breda community.
Ismar Excuse me, Geneviève writes, but how can you help her? I didn’t understand clearly.
Frank We sit we sit together and we discuss the idea and then I sort of we work on the sentences together and then she says, no, I don’t like this idea. Let’s take it out. And then I say, OK, I’m listening. What do you think? And Genevieve is a person who is she likes to go into enormous detail and be very factual. And I’m saying, well, no, look, Vicky is this 40-year-old British woman who lives in southern France, and she likes to have fun and be dynamic and live the life. And so so Geneviève has slowly begun to learn how to become more creative in her in her expression. So when it’s ready, I’ll I’ll let you guys know. But your world domination of cats and and and dogs, it might just happen. We could do a cross-Atlantic project here and they could visit they could visit Sebastian’s lawn and leave little little presents on top of the way.
Sebastian I remember last summer, a friend of mine took a dog with him and the dog pee on my on my lawn. And there was a spot, you know, I don’t know how many weeks.
Ismar Last week, an acquaintance put on Facebook and and and write something there. The dog bow on the on his shit, his bed. And look at what my dog gave me as a Christmas gift. They imagine that people are crazy. OK, OK.
Frank So gentlemen, we come to the end of the program. I give you the last words. Ismar, let’s start with you. The last word on books reading and the whole spectrum that goes with it.
Ismar I was growing up in a farm and I went to the city when I was almost eight, when I knew how to read. And if my parents have haven’t done it, probably today I was working a farm to debate something or treating some animals. And I think to my parents very much because I could discover that I love reading books and everything that relate to that. And I suppose that the majority of things that I’ve learned, I learned by myself from books, from other people and not from exactly from people in a direct way or maybe in a course. I suppose that book and of course, what relate to that reading have been my old and great friends. I thank to my parents very much to have taken me to the city to learn how to write and to read.
Frank Brilliant. Sebastian, your final word.
Sebastian See you tomorrow, Frank. And Ismar, see you next week.
Frank Short and sweet.