Claire and Sam talk about a conversation between two business colleagues, Frank and Heiko, discussing the challenges of working within a large corporation. Heiko, a sales director, outlines his frustration with the company’s cumbersome price increase process, which he sees as indicative of a larger issue of inefficiency and lack of focus. He argues that the company’s siloed structure hinders effective communication and collaboration, leading to delays and frustration for everyone involved. Frank listens intently and offers insights and reflections from his own experience on the challenges Heiko faces.
Transcript
Claire
All right. So, today we’re really diving deep into this idea of corporate chaos. You know, that feeling where things feel inefficient. You’re feeling a little bit of burnout and fixing things. Feels like trying to find a parking spot in downtown Manhattan on a Saturday.
Sam
And you know what I think is interesting about this particular deep dive is that it’s highlighting something that I think a lot of people feel, which is this tension that exists between leadership and those on the front lines.
Claire
Absolutely. And this whole conversation starts with something that sounds, you know, pretty straight for at least initially uh a price increase. Our subject Heiko needs to communicate this price increase to his team and to clients, but the information is just not coming down the pipeline fast enough.
Sam
And I think this is where things get really interesting because it’s easy to write this off as uh you know just a mistimed email or something like that. But what it actually reveals is something much deeper which is we’re talking about siloed departments. Who are so focused on their own tasks that they’re not even considering what the ripple effect of that is going to be.
Claire
Heiko even uses the analogy of a sinking ship to describe the feeling right now in his company. And again, he’s not even talking about the price increase itself at this point, right? It’s more the fact that the internal chaos is making it nearly impossible to do his job effectively.
Sam
And that feeling of being overwhelmed of systems breaking down around you and those who are kind of steering the ship, so to speak, don’t seem to be equipped to handle it is something I think a lot of people are going to be nodding their heads to in recognition. But one thing I do want to point out is that even though Heiko uses that analogy of a sinking ship, it’s not like he’s completely hopeless,
Claire
Right. He kind of pulls back from that a little bit.
Sam
He pulls back a little bit. He sees the problems, but he doesn’t seem like he’s necessarily bought in to the solutions being offered yet because they’re not the right solutions. And one thing that’s really interesting here is that he talks about hearing these same complaints from people at other companies.
Claire
So it’s like Everybody’s ship is sinking and they’re all trying to figure out what size bucket to use to bail out the water.
Sam
Exactly. And it’s that disconnect between what’s happening where he is and the solutions or the lack of solutions coming from above. So, he’s trying to be proactive. He’s trying to get ahead of this price increase communication. And yet, he’s hitting a wall
Claire
And he’s not even asking for, you know, anything unreasonable. just to have the information in a timely manner so that he can do his job.
Sam
Which but when you think about sales that is absolutely critical. You need that information so that you can you know properly communicate it to your clients. So he needs his information 3 months in advance to give his clients a heads up. This is you know industry standard to respect your client’s time so they can you know adapt to these price changes. But because he’s not getting the information he needs ending up having to do things like manually calculate all the price changes himself.
Claire
Which, you know, good for him for being proactive. But that’s just adding more on his plate on top of an already demanding job.
Sam
It’s the definition of hero work. It’s like, oh, look, he saved the day, but it’s actually masking a much deeper problem.
Claire
Yeah. What if he wasn’t that kind of employee? What would have happened?
Sam
Exactly. And to make matters worse, he finally gets this template email from headquarters, about the price increase announcement a day late.
Claire
Huh. Talk about adding insult to injury.
Sam
Talk about it. It just highlights the disconnect that exists there. And he talks about this pattern of similar communication breakdowns of not receiving, you know, crucial information from other departments like R&D in a timely manner.
Claire
So, we’ve got a company that’s struggling to keep up departments that aren’t communicating effectively with each other. Employees being asked to pick up the slack. What does this kind of environment do to morale?
Sam
It’s rough. He talks about, for example, there’s a marketing person who’s making mistakes because they are completely overworked, and his own team is having to take on tasks like proofreading marketing materials because it’s simply not getting done.
Claire
So, not only is there this lack of communication but then everyone’s kind of being asked to do more with less and the cracks are starting to show.
Sam
And I think that’s a really dangerous path to go down because it leads to resentment. It leads to burnout. It leads to ultimately impacting the quality of the work and customer satisfaction. I mean, he uses a very strong word to describe how he feels like some employees are being treated. Essentially, he calls them slaves, which, you know, really gives you a sense of how dire the situation is.
Claire
So, we’re painting kind of a bleak picture here, but surely there are ways to plug some of these leaks,
Sam
Right, so, Frank, the business consultant who he’s talking to, offers some potential solutions. And one that really stood out to me was this idea of what he calls an internal customer-supplier model.
Claire
Okay. Unpack that a little bit for us because it sounds a little counterintuitive.
Sam
It does. So, he talked about his time at Daimler Chrysler, and he said that, you know, different departments within that organization essentially operated like their own little businesses. And they were treated as both a customer and a supplier to other departments within the company. So instead of it being this kind of free-for-all where it seems like everyone’s just scrambling for themselves and no one’s really accountable for anything, it was like they’re all part of the same fleet, but each ship has its own captain and crew and they’re responsible for their own performance.
Claire
So in a way, this internal competition actually led to a higher quality of work because everyone knew that they had to deliver or else they’d be out of business essentially.
Sam
That’s exactly Right. So, if this system works so well for Frank, why doesn’t Heiko think it’s going to work in his situation?
Claire
Yeah, that’s the million-dollar question.
Sam
Well, he brings up a really key difference, which is this idea of choice. So, in this internal customer-supplier model, if you’re unhappy with the supplier tough, you’re stuck with them.
Claire
So, it’s like being stuck with, you know, one cable company and they know that you have no other option. So, they can kind of get away with providing subpar service.
Sam
Exactly. That element of competition is removed and therefore the incentive to improve or to be responsive to the needs of the customer diminishes significantly.
Claire
So if that’s off the table, what other options are there?
Sam
Well, Frank suggests learning from the successful teams in other departments, which again sounds like a no-brainer on the surface, right?
Claire
He seems almost offended by this suggestion.
Sam
Yeah. And I think it’s really important to understand why he reacts that way.
Claire
Yeah. What’s going on there? He’s not against learning from other teams. He’s against the idea of blindly copying what works elsewhere without understanding the specific context of his team and the market that they’re operating in.
Claire
Right. It’s like trying to force a square peg into a round hole just because it worked somewhere else.
Sam
Exactly. And you know, he talks about being told to replicate what the Chinese team is doing or what the US team is doing as if success can just be imported like a product, And I think this is where he brings up a really crucial point that I think is so important for anyone listening who’s in this type of situation, which is he says, “We need to be focusing on strengths rather than weaknesses.”
Claire
Oh, I love that.
Sam
Instead of constantly trying to fix what’s wrong, why not nurture and leverage what is already working well?
Claire
It’s kind of like, you know, Bloom where you’re planted. Focus on what you’re good at, what you’re already doing well, and let that success kind of spill over into other areas.
Sam
A much more empowering approach because instead of constantly feeling like you’re playing catch-up, you’re building on a foundation of existing strengths. And he talks about how much he hates it when people use these comparisons like, “Well, this person’s doing this. Why aren’t you doing that?” And he said, “It’s just so demotivating.”
Claire
Totally.
Sam
Creates this sense of resentment instead of this sense of collaboration.
Claire
And that’s where this great line from the café owner comes in. Think in solutions.
Sam
I love that line.
Claire
I know it’s so simple, but it’s so profound.
Sam
Such a good point because we’ve all been in that situation, right?
Claire
Oh, yeah.
Sam
Where you’re talking to someone and they love to complain, but they never want to offer solutions.
Claire
Totally. They’re the first to point out the problem, but never around when it’s time to brainstorm solutions.
Sam
That’s right. And I think this idea of thinking solutions is a call to action. It’s a way of saying we may not be able to control the circumstances, but we can control how we respond to them.
Claire
So, if we’re thinking in solutions, where does that leave Heiko? He’s still in this situation. He’s still dealing with these same issues.
Sam
That’s a really great question and one we’ll dive more into right after this quick break. I think the important thing to remember here is that you know there’s no magic wand that we can wave and suddenly fix a company culture
Claire
Right
Sam
But I think what this deep dive does so well is highlight you know the importance of even just having these conversations yeah of shining a light on what these systemic issues are even if we don’t have all the answers.
Claire
Because sometimes just acknowledging the problem is the first step to finding a solution.
Sam
Absolutely it’s about opening a dialogue it’s about challenging these unspoken assumptions that I think keep things stuck, and it’s about creating a space for something new to emerge.
Claire
And maybe just maybe by asking the right questions, by having these difficult conversations, we can at least, you know, start bailing out the water faster than it’s coming in.
Sam
I love that analogy and it really speaks to the agency that we do have even when we feel stuck in a system that maybe feels like it’s working against us. We may not be able to, you know, single-handedly fix a broken system overnight, but we can control how we respond to it. We can control how we communicate. We can control how we choose to, you know, focus our energy.
Claire
It’s about, you know, being part of the solution, not the problem.
Sam
Exactly. And, you know, think about Heiko. Despite all of these frustrations that he have, he still demonstrates, you know, a clear commitment to his team, to his customers, and to getting the job done to the best of his ability.
Claire
Yeah. He’s trying to make it better.
Sam
He is. He’s trying to make it better. And that I think is a really great takeaway for anyone listening who, you know, might be feeling similarly. You know, those feelings of being stuck or feeling powerless when you’re up against these larger organizational problems. Remember, they’re always things within your control.
Claire
Like what are some things that people can focus on?
Sam
You know, start with those things that you can influence your attitude. You know, your work ethic, your willingness to communicate constructively and your ability to support your teammates. Those things might seem small in the grand scheme of a whole company, but they can have a ripple effect.
Claire
Yeah,
Sam
Think about it.
Claire
Heiko even talks about, you know, he’s having to take on more responsibility himself. He’s having to delegate tasks to his team, but he’s also realizing they’re at their limit. They can only absorb so much of the work from other departments that are falling behind.
Sam
It’s this delicate balancing act. And I think this is where leadership even at that middle management level like where Heiko is becomes so crucial because he’s in this really tough spot.
Claire
Yeah.
Sam
He’s caught between, you know, the demands coming from above him and the very real limitations of his team.
Claire
He can’t tell his bosses to, you know, take a hike, but he also can’t run his team into the ground.
Sam
Exactly. It’s this tightrope walk. And so he has to find ways to advocate for his team. He has to find ways to push back against those unreasonable demands. And he has to do it all while maintaining, you know, his own professionalism and focus.
Claire
So how do you navigate that? What does that look like?
Sam
It’s about picking your battles strategically. It’s about being thoughtful and purposeful with your communication. And maybe most importantly, it’s about finding allies within the organization. He mentions that other department heads have, you know, privately expressed similar frustrations to him.
Claire
So, they’re all kind of in the same boat together, even if they’re not all bailing water at the same rate.
Sam
Exactly. And that’s where I think building relationships, fostering open communication, finding common ground with your colleagues. I think that can often be that first step toward, you know, real lasting change.
Claire
So, what does this all mean? What’s the takeaway here for people who are listening who are dealing with maybe their own set of workplace challenges? This all sounds eerily familiar, I’m sure. But what can people actually do about it?
Sam
I think what this deep dive does so well is remind us that we’re not alone in these struggles. You know, these these issues of inefficiency, of lack of communication, of just plain old burnout. They’re so widespread, but they don’t have to be inevitable. I think that’s really important to remember. So, it’s a call to action for all of us to stop accepting the status quo as unchangeable.
Claire
Don’t be afraid to speak up. Ask the tough questions and challenge maybe gently, but firmly the way things have always been done.
Sam
Exactly. And I think most importantly, remember that café owner advice, think in solutions.
Claire
Yeah.
Sam
Look for those opportunities, no matter how small they might seem at first, to improve things within your own sphere of influence
Claire
Because even those small acts of, you know, leadership, of positive change, they can make a difference.
Sam
Absolutely, they can. And who knows, you might even inspire those around you to start bailing a little faster, too.
Claire
I love that. Now, let’s shift gears a little bit and talk about this, you know, think in solutions mantra because it came from kind of a surprising source, right?
Sam
It did. He was at a local cafe that he frequents, you know, stressed, overwhelmed, and he was venting to the cafe owner. Expecting, you know, maybe a sympathetic ear, maybe a free cookie or two.
Claire
And what did this café owner say that was so profound?
Sam
He basically just said to him like, “Why are you telling me all this? You should be thinking in solutions.”
Claire
Wow.
Sam
And he said it really struck him because it kind of shifted his perspective,
Claire
right,
Sam
from just dwelling in the problem, which again, the problems are very real. The frustrations are valid, but it’s like, okay, instead of just complaining about it, what are you actively doing to try to make it better?
Claire
I love that. And it’s so easy to fall into that trap of like complaining without offering solutions, it feels good in the moment, maybe to vent,
Sam
Right!
Claire
But it doesn’t actually get us any closer to a solution.
Sam
Exactly. And I think that’s what’s so powerful about this idea of thinking in solutions. It’s a call to action. It’s a reminder that, you know, we always have a choice. Even when we feel like we have very little control over a situation, we can at least control how we choose to approach it.
Claire
So, how can we apply this thinking solutions approach to our own workplaces? Because again, it’s easy to say that, but what does that actually look like practically speaking?
Sam
Well, I think it starts with a conscious shift in mindset.
Claire
Yeah.
Sam
You know, so instead of just focusing on what’s wrong, what’s not working, what’s driving you crazy, challenge yourself to find even just, you know, one small area where you can make a positive impact. Maybe it’s, you know, improving communication within your team. Maybe it’s streamlining a process that’s been driving everyone nuts. Maybe it’s just offering a helping hand to a colleague who’s feeling really overwhelmed.
Claire
It’s like that whole, you know, be the change that you want to see.
Sam
Exactly.
Claire
You know, you can’t just wait around for someone else to fix it. You have to be willing to be a part of that solution.
Sam
And you know, who knows, maybe by doing that, you will inspire other people to do the same.
Claire
Exactly. It creates that ripple effect.
Claire
So, as we kind of wrap up this deep dive into corporate chaos, what’s the most important thing that you want listeners to take away from this conversation between Frank and Heiko?
Sam
I think the biggest takeaway here is that, you know, while we may not be able to single-handedly, you know, overhaul an entire company culture overnight, we’re also not powerless. In the face of these really common workplace challenges, you know, we can choose to be proactive. We can choose to focus on solutions. And we can choose to, you know, help foster a more collaborative and supportive environment for ourselves and for our colleagues.
Claire
We have more agency than we think.
Sam
We do. And I think remembering that is so important.
Claire
Awesome. Well, that’s all the time we have for today’s deep dive. Thanks for joining us. And remember, next time you’re feeling that overwhelm, that corporate chaos, you know, take a deep breath, channel your inner café owner, and ask yourself, what’s the solution?
Sam
What’s the solution?
Claire
You might be surprised at what you come up with.