We explore the conversation between Frank and Ismar, a member of the Novo Party in Brazil. The discussion centres around Ismar’s participation in the recent municipal elections, where he ran as a candidate for city councillor. The conversation explores Ismar’s personal experience of the campaign and election, including his thoughts on the party’s performance, the challenges of running for office in a corrupt system, and his future aspirations.
Transcript
Claire
Okay, so we’re really diving in today. You want to understand Brazilian politics, right? Not just the big picture stuff, but the real deal, like what it actually takes to run for office there.
Sam
Yeah. And what we have is a kind of a ground level view. We’re going really local this time, focusing on these municipal elections from October 2024 in Brazil.
Claire
Right. And our source is this conversation, pretty candid, recorded just days after these elections actually happened. We’ve got a first-time candidate
Sam
and he’s talking with someone who seems like a real veteran of like uh politics and civic engagement, you know.
Claire
So, it’s raw, it’s honest. Gives us a real sense of like how democracy actually works or doesn’t work in a place like Brazil,
Sam
especially now, you know, with all this baggage, right? I mean, Brazil’s got this reputation, maybe deserved, maybe not, who knows? But corruption is something everybody thinks about. And now you have these new parties trying to change things.
Claire
And that’s where our main guy comes in, Ismar. He ran for city council in this place, Compo Grande, as part of this Novo party.
Sam
which is interesting in itself. They’re like the new kids on the block, you know, real anti-corruption stance.
Claire
And Ismar, he’s a retired Air Force officer. Seems like he really believes in what they’re doing.
Sam
Yeah, you can tell he’s got that that sense of duty about him. And on the other side, we’ve got Frank. He’s the one leading this thing called the Brida community. Not totally sure what that is, but
Claire
yeah, what is that all about?
Sam
Not entirely clear from the recording, but you can tell from his questions, this guy is a deep thinker. He’s really considered this whole idea of, you know, how do you actually make a difference? What does civic engagement really mean?
Claire
So, picture this. It’s election day, October 6th, 2024, a Sunday, by the way. And Ismar, he’s not just voting. He’s voting for himself,
Sam
Which has got to be like a trip, right? I mean, talk about pressure.
Claire
Totally. But here’s the thing. The day itself sounds really normal. He’s having lunch with his mom, visiting his aunt.
Sam
Yeah. It’s not all rallies and speeches. Sometimes politics is just life, you know? And I think that contrast is really fascinating. Like, here’s this guy. He’s put himself out there. He’s on the ballot
Claire
And yet it’s a Sunday like any other at least on the surface.
Sam
Right. And that’s what I think is so interesting about this recording.
Sam
It shows you the human side of politics. It’s not always grandstanding and backroom deals. Sometimes it’s just family and waiting to see what happens.
Claire
Exactly. And for Ismar, what happens is a mix of emotions. He knows going in his chances are slim. He’s up against a former mayor Crying out loud. But still, you know, you put in the work.
Sam
There’s always that hope, right? That maybe, just maybe.
Claire
Yeah. Yeah, but then reality sets in. He checks the results. Ismar 53 votes
Sam
Out of how many did you say?
Claire
Something like 3200 to win. So yeah, 53 votes. It really puts things in perspective, doesn’t it?
Sam
It’s brutal. All those months of campaigning, shaking hands, giving speeches, and it comes down to 53 people. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t thinking about that work to vote ratio. Like, could I handle that?
Claire
Oh, absolutely. It’s like putting yourself out there online, sharing something you’re really proud of, and
crickets. Except this isn’t about likes or retweets. This is politics. It’s real life with real stakes. And it’s not just him, by the way. Oh, right. He talked about this colleague really gung-ho all over social media.
Sam
Tons of engagement apparently really hustling on the campaign trail. Even fewer votes than Ismar, which makes you wonder, right? Like what’s the point of all that online stuff if it doesn’t translate into real-world support?
Claire
Yeah, it’s a good question. So, here’s Ismar processing this news. 53 votes, months of his life, and who does he turn to? Mom, of course.
Sam
Of course. Looking for a little sympathy, maybe a pep talk, but uh she keeps it real. Let’s just say that.
Claire
Oh, yeah. Classic mom move. Give it up. Find something else to do.
Sam
Straight to the point. And you can tell it kind of stings even though he’s got to she’s coming from a good place. But it forces him to confront this question. You know, why did he want this in the first place?
Claire
Was it ego, ambition, or was there something more there?
Sam
It’s interesting though when you think about the Nova Party, their whole deal,
Claire
Right. This whole anti-corruption thing.
Sam
Yeah. And they really take it seriously. Like one of their big principles is they don’t use public funds for campaigns,
Claire
Which on the surface sounds kind of noble.
Sam
Yeah. Like they want to win fair and square. Not because they’ve got the deepest pockets,
Claire
but there’s got to be a downside.
Sam
Well, yeah. I mean, Ismar mentions they’ve got millions, right? Millions they could be using to compete,
Claire
but they choose not to,
Sam
right? And you can almost hear him wrestling with this. You know, like he respects it, but
Claire
but it’s also reality.
Sam
Exactly. It’s like how do you stay true to these ideals when the system itself is kind of
Claire
Stacked against you?
Sam
Yeah. I mean, it’s a tough one. Do you compromise, play the game everyone else is playing or do you hold on to your principles even if it means you might lose?
Claire
It’s that classic dilemma, and it’s not just politics, right? It’s careers, relationships. When do you hold the line? When do you adapt? Makes you think.
Sam
Absolutely. It’s like that in every aspect of life. And there’s no easy answer. Makes you really appreciate what these guys are up against. It’s not just about winning an election. It’s about
Claire
It’s about what you’re willing to sacrifice.
Sam
Yeah, exactly. But it made me think about something else he said about his family.
Claire
Oh, right. His mom telling him to give up on politics.
Sam
Well, yeah, that, but also he mentions his sisters.
Claire
What? They’re telling him to run for mayor now.
Sam
Not exactly. It’s more like he’s having trouble getting them to help out with their mom. She’s getting older. Needs some care.
Claire
Oh, okay.
Sam
Yeah. can feel his frustration. It’s like he’s trying to do this big thing, change the world, but
Claire
but he can’t even get his sisters on board with helping their own mother.
Sam
Exactly. It’s relatable, you know, who hasn’t dealt with family stuff, right?
Claire
Oh, tell me about it.
Sam
But the way he connects it to politics, that’s what got me. He’s like, if I can’t even convince my own sisters to help, how am I supposed to make a difference on city council?
Claire
It’s almost like he’s lost faith or is at least really questioning himself,
Sam
Right. And I think a lot of people listening can relate to that feeling like What’s the point? What difference can I actually make?
Claire
Especially when you’re talking about something as big and messy as politics.
Sam
Exactly. It’s easy to feel like one voice doesn’t matter.
Claire
But then Frank, he jumps in with this other perspective. Yeah. He pushes back a little.
Sam
He does. He’s like, Look, you got to think bigger picture. This thing with your sisters, that’s individual change. What you’re trying to do with the Novo party, that’s systemic change.
Claire
So, it’s not just about convincing your sisters to do the dishes. It’s about big.
Sam
It’s about changing the whole system that makes it hard for families to care for their ageing parents in the first place.
Claire
Okay, that’s a much bigger task,
Sam
Right. And Frank’s point is it’s a different kind of change. It’s harder, takes longer. You might not even see the results in your lifetime,
Claire
Bbut it’s not hopeless. It’s just
Sam
it’s a long game. And sometimes those small victories, those 53 votes, they’re part of a much bigger story.
Claire
I like that. It’s about planting seeds even if you don’t see them grow right away.
Sam
Exact. Exactly. And then Frank, he uses this analogy. I got to be honest, it threw me for a loop at first. He’s like, you know how “behind every successful husband, there’s an ambitious woman?”
Claire
It’s refreshing to be reminded that there are people who enter politics with good intentions, a real desire to serve.
Sam
Absolutely. But it also highlights the challenges they face, especially in a system that often rewards the opposite.
Claire
And this whole idea of working within this system, pushing for change from the inside, it gets really interesting when you think about that dilemma concept Frank brought up earlier,
Sam
The one about feeling pressured to conform to the majority opinion even if you disagree privately.
Claire
Exactly. Because if that’s happening on a societal level, if people are afraid to voice their true opinions, how does that impact the kind of systemic change Frank is talking about?
Sam
It’s a crucial question because real change, lasting change, requires more than just a handful of people pushing from within. It needs a groundswell of support, a shift in the collective consciousness.
Claire
So, how do you create that shift? How do you get people to speak up to support those who are trying to change the system from within even when it feels risky?
Sam
Well, maybe it starts with stories like Ismar’s. Hearing someone grapple with these dilemmas, these very human struggles within the political arena. It makes the whole thing feel less abstract, less distant.
Claire
It makes you realize that even though he didn’t get thousands of votes, his campaign, his willingness to put himself out there, it still had an impact.
Sam
Exactly. And perhaps in a way not winning the election gave him a different kind of platform. Think about it. He challenged his party’s approach to campaign finance. He sparked this whole conversation about individual versus systemic change. Who knows who was listening to that recording who might have been inspired by his story.
Claire
It’s like that old saying, you throw a pebble in a pond and the ripples, they just keep going.
Sam
And you might never know how far those ripples reach or what kind of impact they have.
Claire
Which I think is a really powerful takeaway for our listeners because maybe you’re not running for office anytime soon, but we all have causes we care about, things we want to see change in our communities, and the world, and it’s easy to get discouraged, to feel like our individual actions don’t really matter.
Sam
But Ismar’s story reminds us that even small acts of engagement of speaking your truth can have a ripple effect.
Claire
So, the next time you hear that inner voice urging you to get involved, to stand up for something you believe in, even if it feels like a long shot, remember Ismar. Remember those 53 votes.
Sam
and ask yourself, what kind of ripple are you willing to create?
| Extracts from my conversation with Ismar | Click Here |
| Further material, related to this discussion | Click Here |