We explore the conversation between Frank, the founder of the Brida Community, and Ismar, a member, about the implications of extending human lifespans. The conversation is sparked by the youthful appearance of Rosii, a community member, which leads them to consider whether immortality would be a blessing or a curse. The discussion delves into various facets of radical life extension, exploring the potential societal, ethical, and economic consequences of eliminating ageing as a cause of death. They highlight the potential for increased societal strain, the need for re-evaluating education systems, and the ethical dilemmas surrounding the manipulation of the human brain for extended lifespans. The podcast ultimately concludes by stressing the importance of ethical considerations in the pursuit of scientific advancement, emphasising that the quest for eternal life might not be a path to a utopia, but rather a road paved with unforeseen and potentially dystopian outcomes.
Key topics: Immortality debate, Ethical considerations, Societal impact, Human connection, Ethical dilemmas
Transcript
Sam
Welcome to this week’s Atlantic Corridor Brewed Review. I’m Sam.
Claire
And I’m Claire.
Sam
What if we actually like find the found of youth? What if living forever wasn’t just a myth? That’s what we’re exploring today. Um drawing from a conversation between Frank, the founder of the Brida Community and Ismar, one of its members.
Claire
They cover a lot of ground. But it all starts with Rosii, another member, who at 55 looks remarkably young.
Sam
Frank even comments on how Rosii seems to defy age. And that sparks a bigger question. Would immortality be a blessing or a curse?
Claire
Ismar jumps in with a fascinating analogy. The movie Highlander. He points out that the immortal protagonist is constantly adapting to new eras, new people, new ways of life. If you couldn’t mentally keep up, immortality could be a recipe for isolation and even madness.
Sam
It’s like being a prisoner in time. But then Frank throws in another twist. What if we could augment our brains to keep up with the ever changing world? Extend lifespan and enhance our capacity to adapt.
Claire
That brings up a whole host of ethical questions. Is it even desirable to manipulate our brains like that?
Sam
It sounds like something straight out of science fiction, But Ismar brings the conversation back down to earth
by talking about his ageing uncle. He’s been facing declining health and feeling neglected by his family. It makes you realize longevity isn’t just about living longer, It’s about the quality of those years.
Claire
Absolutely. And Ismar even mentions a Harvard study. He promises to share a link with you later that followed people for decades and found those with strong social ties actually tend to live longer. It suggests that human connection isn’t just nice to have. It’s essential for a longer, healthier life.
Sam
It’s a good reminder that the fountain of youth might not be a magical spring, but rather the relationships we cultivate throughout our lives. But let’s shift gears a bit. We can’t talk about the quest for youth without mentioning the booming industry. Selling products and procedures promising just that.
Claire
It’s a multi-billion dollar industry, praying on our insecurities about getting older.
Sam
Yeah, for sure.
Claire
Frank and Ismar even bring up author Yuval Noah Harrari who in his book Homo Deus, who predicts a future where humans only die from accidents. We’d effectively eliminate ageing as a cause of death. Thanks to technology.
Sam
Imagine a world where ageing is essentially eradicated. It’s mind-blowing. But it also raises some serious questions about what happens to society and the economy with such a dramatic shift.
Claire
Exactly. They dive into the potential strain on resources. The challenges of an increasingly ageing population. And even the possibility of needing increased immigration to sustain developed countries. It quickly becomes clear that extending lifespan has ripple effects far beyond the individual.
Sam
It forces us to rethink how we structure societies and economies. And then they take another fascinating turn by discussing the right to choose death. If we were granted extended lifespans, should we also have the right to decide when that life ends?
Claire
It’s the ultimate freedom of choice. Ismar shares his personal reflection on this. Emphasizing that what matters most to him are health, having purpose and feeling useful to others if those were missing; a prolonged life might not be appealing at all.
Sam
It challenges us to define what truly makes a life worth living. And he also brings up a concerning point.
The disparity between how rapidly science is advancing and how much slower human development seems to be. Are we evolving emotionally and ethically at the same rate as our scientific capabilities?
Claire
It’s a good question.
Sam
It’s like we’re racing ahead with technology without fully considering the consequences. We have a cautionary tale about the importance of ethics in our pursuit of breakthroughs.
Claire
Absolutely. And then the conversation takes a darker turn. And as they explore the potential downsides of extended lifespans. They discuss the relationship between power corruption and longevity. Which can be a bit unsettling.
Sam
It gets pretty dystopian. They imagine a world with a population management system because people are living so much longer. Who gets to live and who doesn’t? Who makes that decision?
Claire
It’s a chilling thought to imagine a system, dictating who has access to life-extending technologies,
They even discuss the potential for a world populated by genetically perfect individuals which could worsen existing inequalities.
Sam
It’s a stark reminder that even with amazing possibilities, there will always be limitations and those limitations can be exploited for power and control.
Claire
Absolutely. Then they shift gears focusing on the implications for education. If people live much longer. What kind of education system do we need?
Sam
It’s a great question. The current model would need a serious overhaul. Totally. If we’re talking about lifespans lasting centuries,
Claire
They talk about whether to focus on training for specific tasks or on fostering critical thinking and imagination.
Sam
And of course, they bring up the role of artificial intelligence,
Claire
That’s where we get a glimpse of a potential dystopia, okay, where humans become mindless doers instead of thinkers, simply carrying out AI’s instructions.
Sam
It’s a bit frightening. And in light of this potential future, Frank and Ismar circle back to the idea, of accepting our natural end.
Claire
It’s a counterpoint to the quest for immortality. They seem to be grappling with the potential for arrogance, in striving for something that might disrupt the natural order.
Sam
Frank draws a comparison, between human’s learned behaviours and the instinctive lives of animals. Maybe there’s wisdom and acceptance the natural cycle of life and death.
Claire
It makes you wonder if our obsession with controlling and extending life is blinding us to the beauty of our place in the natural world.
Sam
it’s a good point.
but let’s pause here,
okay,
and pick up this discussion in part two.
Claire
They continue to kind of unpack the potential consequences of eternal life. And they stumble upon another disturbing possibility, a new form of corruption.
Sam
So, this is where the conversation takes a cynical turn.
Claire
Yeah, a little bit.
Sam
They imagine a world where access to eternal life becomes a commodity, Something that can be bought and sold, traded and manipulated.
Claire
It’s a sobering thought.
Sam
And it’s not just about money either. Frank and Ismar even discussed the potential for like manipulation and coercion where individuals might be forced to give up power. Or make compromises to secure their place in this new world of immortality.
Claire
It’s interesting because it suggests that even with the promise of eternal life, human nature won’t change that much. We might simply find like new and more insidious ways to exploit and control each other.
Sam
The pursuit of eternal life, something that’s supposed to be about transcending our limitations, could actually lead to a more restrictive and oppressive society.
Claire
And in a rather ironic twist, Frank suggests that maybe a country like Brazil, with its existing history of corruption, might actually be better prepared for this kind of system, than a country like France, which prides itself on its rule of law.
Sam
It’s a darkly humorous observation. But it also highlights a troubling truth. If we’re talking about a world where eternal life is controlled by a system, those who are already adept at manipulating systems might have a distinct advantage.
Claire
It’s a thought-provoking end to a very thought-provoking conversation.
Sam
I agree.
Claire
It leaves us with a sense of unease about the potential consequences of our pursuit of longevity.
Sam
The quest for eternal life isn’t just a scientific endeavour. It’s a philosophical one that forces us to confront our own values and beliefs about life, death, and the very nature of what it means to be human.
Claire
Frank and Ismar don’t offer any easy answers.
Sam
No, they don’t.
Claire
But they raise crucial questions that we all need to consider. As we venture further down this path in scientific advancement,
Sam
What are we willing to sacrifice for the promise of eternal life?
Claire
And perhaps even more importantly, are we focusing so much on extending life that we are forgetting to live the one we have?
Sam
It’s a question worth pondering.
Claire
It is. And it’s not just about individual choices either, This conversation forces us to think about the kind of future we’re creating, the values we’re prioritizing, and the potential consequences of our actions.
Sam
It’s a lot to unpack.
Claire
Definitely.
Sam
But it’s a conversation we need to have. After all the decisions we make today will shape the world of tomorrow, whether that world includes the fountain of youth or not.
Claire
And on that note, we’ve reached the end of our deep dive into Frank and Ismar”s conversation. Frank and Ismar’s conversation really makes you think
Sam
it does. Yeah.
Claire
It’s easy to get caught up in the excitement of scientific progress, but we can’t forget the bigger picture.
Sam
Absolutely. They touch on the Brida Community, which might be unfamiliar to some of you. It’s a group exploring these very ideas. The potential of radical life extension. The ethical considerations, the societal shifts it could bring about.
Claire
What’s interesting is that while they’re clearly fascinated by the possibilities, they’re also cautious. They keep coming back to this tension between pushing the boundaries of what’s possible and respecting the natural order of things.
Sam
And they never lose sight of the human element, all this talk of longevity and technology. But ultimately, they’re concerned with what makes a life meaningful. Regardless of how long it lasts.
Claire
It’s a good reminder for all of us whether or not we ever find the fountain of youth. The real quest is to make the most of the time we have. To cultivate those strong social connections that Ismar talked about, to find purpose and meaning in our lives and to approach these advancements with a healthy dose of caution and ethical awareness.
Sam
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Claire
Yeah. Thanks for joining us.
Sam
Thank you for listening. Until the next time, Claire and Sam.