This podcast episode from Brida focuses on the declining sense of trust and consideration in society, exploring the question of whether travel and education actually make people more moral. The podcast features a conversation between, Ismar from Brazil and Frank in France, who discuss their experiences with this trend. They both use personal anecdotes to illustrate their point, highlighting instances where they encountered inconsiderate or unethical behaviour from others. This leads them to explore potential causes for this societal decline, including the love of money, and how it can erode basic values. The podcast concludes with a call to action, urging listeners to take personal responsibility for their actions and choose to act with integrity and consideration, emphasizing that even small gestures of kindness can have a positive impact on society. The podcast ends with the powerful statement “The boundary of my freedom stops at the boundary of your freedom,” emphasizing that responsible freedom comes with a responsibility to consider the impact of one’s actions on others.
Transcript
Sam
Hello everyone. It’s Sam and Claire here again. Welcome to another Brida podcast.
Claire
Always great to be here.
Sam
You know, today’s topic is a little unusual and maybe even a bit uncomfortable to think about. We’ve been reflecting on something we’ve both noticed. It seems like basic values like consideration and trust are becoming less common in society.
Claire
Yeah, I think we all sense that sometimes it can be disheartening,
Sam
Right. Our source material for this episode comes from a conversation between two men. Ismar and Frank, both 63 years old, who have been grappling with these very issues.
Claire
Their discussion is titled Two Grumpy Men, which they explain is a reference to a British TV show about unmet expectations for their generation. It’s a bit tongue-in-cheek but also reveals a sense of disillusionment.
Sam
Definitely. Ismar is from Brazil, while Frank lives in a small village and is a leader in the Brida community. So, they’re coming at this from different backgrounds and perspectives, which is always interesting. Their conversation begins with Ismar posing a question that really made me think. Does travel and education actually make people more moral?
Claire
It’s a challenging question. We tend to assume that knowledge and experience lead to better behaviour, but is that always true?
Sam
Exactly. And Ismar illustrates this with a story about a literature symposium he attended. There were discussions about important social issues like the decline of language and the rise of racism. But then he noticed something ironic. Many of the attendees had parked their cars illegally right in front of the building.
Claire
Oh, the irony. So much for intellectual discourse leading to ethical behaviour.
Sam
Right? And Ismar’s point is that we often have this selective attention. We can be very focused on certain issues while completely overlooking how our own actions might contradict our beliefs.
Claire
It’s a blind spot we all have to watch out for.
Sam
Now, Frank joins the conversation with a slightly different take. He believes that bad behaviour, especially from intellectuals, actually contradicts their intelligence. He sees it as a form of arrogance and a lack of basic manners. So for Frank, it’s not just about inconsistency, but about a fundamental lack of respect for others.
Sam
Yes. He even goes so far as to say that this kind of behaviour is indicative of a larger societal trend. And to illustrate his point, he shares a story about his 87-year-old mother’s experience with a car repair shop. She had a minor accident back in June, and although her car was still drivable, it needed to be fixed. The problem is the repair shop keeps delaying the work. First, it was postponed from September to November. And then just days before the scheduled repair, they left a message on his mother’s voicemail asking to delay it another one to two weeks.
Claire
Wow, that’s frustrating, especially for an elderly woman who relies on her car. It’s hard not to see that as a lack of basic consideration.
Sam
Absolutely. Frank points out that his mother is 87 years old and doesn’t feel comfortable driving any other car. Even after explaining this to the repair shop, they couldn’t give her a definite date for when the car would be ready.
Claire
It sounds like they’re more concerned with their own convenience than with the impact of their actions on others.
Sam
That’s exactly Frank’s point. He feels that this kind of experience erodes trust which is fundamental to a functioning society.
Claire
It makes you wonder if we can’t even trust a basic service like a car repair shop, where does that leave us?
Sam
And Ismar really echoes that sentiment. He admits that he generally doesn’t trust people unless they prove themselves trustworthy through their words, interactions, and actions.
Claire
That’s understandable given his and Frank’s experiences, but it’s also a sad reflection of the state of things.
Sam
He then shares another example. that highlights this point. A few years ago, his oven broke down. He actually tried to fix it himself, even improvising with some parts. But eventually, he realized he needed a new oven. So, he calls a technician and explains that he’s already tried to fix it, but the technician’s response is totally dismissive. He only focuses on the fact that the oven is broken and needs replacement, completely ignoring Ismar’s efforts.
Claire
It’s as if the technician is more interested in appearances, getting the job done quickly, rather than in genuinely trying to be helpful, or even just acknowledging Ismar’s attempt to solve the problem himself.
Sam
Yes, it’s that lack of genuine human connection that really bothers them and it brings them to the central questions of their discussion. Where does this attitude come from and how can it be stopped?
Claire
These are big questions. I’m eager to hear what they come up with.
Sam
Well, they start exploring potential causes and solutions, beginning with the idea that “the love of money is the root of all evil.”
Claire
Ah, that age-old saying, it certainly speaks to the way financial insecurity can create instability in society
Sam
and that makes Ismar reflect on his experience as a dentist over 20 years ago. He recalls that if there was ever an issue with his work, he would reimburse the patient without hesitation.
Claire
That speaks to a different set of values, a sense of personal responsibility and accountability that maybe isn’t as common today.
Sam
Exactly. So, they’re grappling with this question of how to solve this problem of declining trust and human decency. Frank emphasizes the importance of leading by example, choosing not to do what we see others doing if we find it unacceptable.
Claire
That makes sense. It’s about taking personal responsibility for upholding the values we believe in.
Sam
But it raises another dilemma that they wrestle with when to speak up and when to stay silent, especially in dangerous environments. Ismar specifically mentions the situation in Brazil where speaking out can have serious consequences. He even says that if he complained about everything he saw, he’d probably be killed within a week.
Claire
That’s a chilling thought. It highlights the fact that for some people, staying silent isn’t just about apathy it’s about survival.
Sam
Absolutely. But even in less extreme situations, speaking up can be difficult. It can feel confrontational or even futil. But I think it’s important to remember that even small acts of resistance like politely pointing out someone’s inconsiderate behaviour can make a difference,
Claire
Right. It can at least disrupt the normalization of bad behaviour. And who knows, it might even inspire others to do the same. Yeah, it’s about planting that seed of awareness. And they do bring up a really interesting point about the power of stricter laws and heavier fines as a way to encourage better behaviour. They use the example of shopping cart deposits in Canada and Europe.
Sam
Oh, that’s a great example. You put a coin in to release the cart and you get it back when you return it. It really does discourage people from leaving their carts all over the parking lot.
Claire
Exactly. And they point out that this practice doesn’t exist in Brazil, which leads to abandoned carts potentially causing damage or blocking parking spaces. It’s a small thing, but it speaks to a larger issue. Why can’t people simply return the carts to the designated area? It boils down to a lack of consideration for shared spaces and for the common good.
Sam
It’s almost as if those little acts of inconsideration add up to a bigger erosion of trust in society. If we can’t trust people to do the right thing, even with something as simple as a shopping cart, how can we trust them with bigger things?
Claire
And that leads them to a really provocative question. Do people have too much freedom if they don’t know how to use it responsibly?
Sam
That’s such a thought-provoking question. It challenges us to think about the balance between individual freedom and our responsibility to the community.
Claire
Right. And I think their conversation highlights the fact that true freedom comes with responsibilities. If we want to live in a society where we can trust each other, where we feel safe and respected, then we all have to do our part.
Sam
Absolutely. And speaking of doing our part, I’m reminded of Frank’s mention of Admiral McGraven’s speech about making your bed.
Claire
Oh, yes. That was a powerful message about how even small acts of self-discipline can have a ripple effect.
Sam
Exactly. McRaven’s point was that If you make your bed every morning, you’ve already accomplished something. It sets a positive tone for the day and gives you a sense of control even when things feel chaotic. And Frank seems to be applying that same principle to this issue of societal decline. He’s suggesting that if we want to change the world, we need to start by changing ourselves by making small, conscious choices to be more considerate, responsible, and trustworthy in our everyday lives.
Claire
It’s about taking ownership of our own actions and realizing that even small gestures of kindness and respect can make a difference. It’s not about grand gestures or saving the world single-handedly. It’s about those everyday interactions where we choose to act with integrity.
Sam
It’s like that saying, be the change you want to see in the world. It sounds cliché, but it’s really true.
Claire
And it can be as simple as holding a door open for someone, letting someone ahead of you in traffic, or returning that shopping cart. It’s about recognizing that we’re all connected and that our actions impact others.
Sam
And I think that’s where this idea of trust comes in. It’s about believing that other people will act in ways that are predictable, reliable, and considerate of our needs.
Claire
Exactly. Trust is the glue that holds societies together. When we trust each other, we feel safer. We’re more willing to cooperate, and we’re more likely to act with kindness and generosity. But when that trust is eroded, it creates a sense of suspicion and fear. We become more isolated, more focused on self-preservation, and less likely to extend ourselves to others.
Sam
It’s like a vicious cycle. The more we experience inconsiderate or untrustworthy behaviour, the less likely we are to trust others, and the more likely are to act in the same way.
Claire
And that’s why it’s so important to break that cycle, to make a conscious effort to be more trustworthy ourselves and to look for examples of trustworthiness in others. It’s not about being naive or ignoring the realities of the world. It’s about choosing to believe that people are fundamentally good and that we can build a better world together.
Sam
That’s a beautiful sentiment, but it’s hard to stay optimistic when you’re constantly bombarded with news stories about conflict, corruption, and violence. It can feel like the world is spiralling out of control.
Claire
I understand that. It’s easy to get discouraged. But I think it’s important to remember that we’re not powerless. We can’t control the actions of others, but we can control our own actions. We can choose to act with kindness, compassion, and integrity even in the face of negativity.
Sam
And maybe, maybe those small acts of kindness can inspire others to do the same. Maybe they can plant the seeds for a more trustworthy and compassionate world.
Claire
It’s certainly a hope worth holding on to. And I think Ismar and Frank’s conversation reminds us that we’re not alone in this struggle. There are people all over the world who are grappling with these same issues, who are longing for a more just and humane society.
Sam
And maybe by talking about these issues, by sharing our experiences and our hopes, we can start to create the kind of world we want to live in. Yeah, it really does feel like we need to find those points of connection, those shared values that can bring us together.
Claire
And their final thought really resonated with me. They end their conversation with this powerful statement. “The boundary of my freedom stops at the boundary of your freedom.”
Sam
Hm that’s such a concise way of capturing the idea of responsible freedom. It’s a reminder that our actions have consequences, not just for ourselves, but for those around us.
Claire
It’s about recognizing that our individual freedom is inextricably linked to the freedom of others. We can’t have true freedom without responsibility, without considering the impact of our actions on the well-being of others.
Sam
It’s a beautiful concept, but putting it into practice in our complex world is the real challenge.
Claire
It is. But I think it starts with awareness, with recognizing that we’re all part of a larger community and that our actions have ripple effects. It’s about making conscious choices to act with integrity, to treat others with respect, and to take responsibility for our impact on the world around us.
Sam
It’s about understanding that true freedom doesn’t mean doing whatever we want whenever we want. It means using our freedom in a way that doesn’t infringe on the freedom of others.
Claire
And maybe it starts with something as simple as making our beds.
Sam
Yeah, there’s that make-your-bed wisdom again. It might seem like a small thing, but it speaks to that idea of self-discipline and taking responsibility for our own little corner of the world.
Claire
Exactly. And as Admiral McRaven said in his speech, even small acts of order and self-control can have a ripple effect. They can create a sense of accomplishment and set the tone for the rest of our day. And maybe those small acts can inspire others to do the same.
Sam
It’s like planting a seed. You might not see the results immediately, but with time and care, something beautiful can grow.
Claire
I love that analogy and I think it’s a message of hope that Ismar and Frank are trying to convey. It’s not about despairing over the state of the world but about taking responsibility for our own actions and inspiring others to do the same.
Sam
It’s about recognizing that even in a world that often feels chaotic and uncaring. We still have the power to choose kindness, to choose integrity, to choose to be the change we want to see.
Claire
And those choices, no matter how small they may seem, can make all the difference.
Sam
This has certainly been an unusual topic. Thanks for listening. I’m Sam.
Claire
And I’m Claire.
Sam
Bye-bye.
Claire
Bye-bye.