Claire and Sam talk about a conversation between, Frank, Julia, and Sebastian, who discuss various topics, including their professional experiences, cultural differences, and personal reflections. The conversation begins with a lighthearted anecdote about a party in Strasbourg, leading into a broader discussion about working with colleagues from different countries, particularly regarding their approaches to work, communication, and success. The dialogue explores the German mentality of being structured, detail-oriented, and often hesitant to express success prematurely, contrasted with the more laid-back, “go-with-the-flow” attitudes of other nationalities. They also touch upon the importance of authenticity in communication, highlighting how honest conversations, even about difficult topics, can foster deeper connections. Finally, they discuss the challenges of navigating new work environments and the common experience of impostor syndrome, particularly for individuals entering a new field or team.
Transcript
Sam: All right, so are you ready to dive into some cultural differences today?
Claire: Yeah, definitely.
Sam: You know, we’ve been getting a lot of requests from listeners wanting to understand how these differences, especially between Germans and other nationalities, play out, you know, at work and in everyday life.
Claire: Absolutely.
Sam: And I think we’ve got a really interesting way to dig into that today. Because remember that audio diary you shared? From that global team meeting you’re a part of? With Frank from France? Sebastian from Germany. And Julia, also from Germany. There is so much to unpack there.
Claire: I know, it’s like eavesdropping on a cultural experiment in progress.
Sam: It really is. Yeah, it’s fascinating. So I thought maybe a good place to start would be to talk about some of those common perceptions about German culture. Because throughout the meeting, we hear about, you know, love of detail, emphasis on structure, maybe even a little bit of hesitation to, you know, pop the champagne before the finish line is crossed. What do you think about all that?
Claire: Well, it’s interesting because those observations aren’t just coming from outsiders looking in. Both Julia and Sebastian, being German themselves, touch on some of these traits. You know, it reminds me of the concept of uncertainty avoidance. Have you heard of that?
Sam: I have, but maybe you can refresh.
Claire: Yeah, so basically, cultures with high uncertainty avoidance, like Germany, often find comfort in predictability and clear rules.
Sam: Okay, so it’s about having those structures in place. So you don’t feel like you’re, you know, adrift at sea.
Claire: Yeah, you don’t like surprises. You want to know what to expect.
Sam: Interesting. So how does that play out with Sebastian then? Because it sounds like he’s kind of bumping up against some of these norms at his company, right?
Claire: Yeah, he’s having a tough time. Because he’s finding himself surrounded by colleagues who maybe inflate their achievements a little bit and seem to prioritize just hitting those targets over doing things the right way.
Sam: Right, like ticking the boxes.
Claire: Yeah, exactly.
Sam: But maybe not paying attention to the detail.
Claire: Exactly, and it’s clearly a point of friction for him.
Sam: Yeah, and I think you can hear the frustration.
Claire: Oh, absolutely.
Sam: In his voice when he talks about it.
Claire: Yeah, when he’s like, “Come on, guys, you know, this is not right. We shouldn’t be doing it this way.” And, you know, it’s interesting because it highlights this dilemma that I think a lot of people face when they’re working across cultures.
Sam: Right.
Claire: How do you balance your own personal values with what’s expected of you professionally?
Sam: Right, because sometimes they’re not always aligned.
Claire: They clash sometimes.
Sam: Yeah.
Claire: And, you know, Sebastian clearly values honesty and genuine achievement.
Sam: Right.
Claire: And that’s clashing with this workplace culture that he’s experiencing.
Sam: Yeah.
Claire: It makes you wonder, do you adapt to fit in?
Sam: Right.
Claire: Even if it means compromising some of your values?
Sam: Right.
Claire: Or do you hold your ground and risk sticking out?
Sam: It’s a tough one.
Claire: It is.
Sam: And what I like about this audio diary is that it doesn’t give us an easy answer.
Claire: It doesn’t.
Sam: Sebastian’s still wrestling with it.
Claire: Exactly.
Sam: Which makes him more…
Claire It makes him human.
Sam: Yeah, relatable. Okay, so we’ve talked about, you know, those cultural perceptions, uncertainty avoidance. I want to go back to something else that Frank mentions at the beginning of the meeting. This party that he went to. Where he meets this person. And this person he just met basically unloads their deepest, darkest secrets.
Claire: Oh yeah, the oversharing stranger.
Sam: I know.
Claire: That’s a good one.
Sam: Right, talk about an icebreaker.
Claire: I know, like, whoa, too much information. Right, way too fast.
Sam: So what’s going on there culturally?
Claire: Well, it’s a perfect example of how cultural norms around self-disclosure can be so different.
Sam: Okay.
Claire: You know, Frank, coming from a culture where small talk tends to be lighter.
Sam: Right.
Claire: Found this really jarring.
Sam: Understandably.
Claire: Yeah.
Sam: Like, who are you?
Claire: Yeah, I just met you.
Sam: Yeah, why are you telling me this?
Claire: Exactly.
Sam: But then Julia, on the other hand, seems to instinctively want to listen and offer support.
Claire: It’s like they each have a different script.
Sam: Yes.
Claire: For navigating those social interactions.
Sam: Yes, and I love.
Claire: It’s so fascinating.
Sam: Sebastian uses this anecdote as a jumping-off point. To launch into this whole critique.
Claire: I love that part.
Sam: Of the question, “How are you?” Which, you know, we all ask it.
Claire: All the time.
Sam: All the time, without really thinking about it.
Claire: We don’t even want an honest answer half the time.
Sam: Yeah, it’s just this social script.
Claire: Formality and not a genuine.
Sam: Invitation for connection. Which makes what Sebastian did in the meeting the week before.
Claire: Oh yeah.
Sam: Even more. Amazing, because he basically flipped the script.
Claire: He did.
Sam: When someone asked him, “How are you?”
Claire: Yeah.
Sam: He responded with this raw honesty about what he was struggling with.
Claire: He was like, “You know what, it’s been a rough week.”
Sam: Yeah, “I’m not doing great.”
Claire: Yeah.
Sam: And you can tell it took him a lot of guts to do that.
Claire: He was nervous about it. He even said that.
Sam: Yeah.
Claire: But he did it.
Sam: And you know what I found really interesting? Is that it created this ripple effect.
Claire: Right.
Sam: Because Julia even brings it up.
Claire: She does.
Sam: In this week’s meeting.
Claire: She’s like, “You know when you said that last week? Like, it really.
Sam It made me think.
Sam: It made me think. It made me feel.
Sam: And it’s clear that Sebastian’s willingness to be vulnerable, to kind of break free from that social script. Had a real impact on the group dynamic.
Claire: You know, it reminds me of that Brené Brown quote.
Sam: Which one is that?
Claire: Vulnerability is the birthplace of connection.
Sam: I love that quote.
Claire: It’s so true.
Sam: It’s so true.
Claire: Because when we put those walls down. And we’re real with each other. That’s where the magic happens.
Sam: That’s how you really connect.
Claire: Exactly.
Sam: So we’re seeing that happen. In real-time with this group.
Claire: I love it.
Sam: Okay, so we’ve talked about how Germans are perceived by others and even themselves.
Claire: Yeah.
Sam: We talked about self-disclosure. But there’s another really interesting cultural clash that emerges.
Claire: Yeah.
Sam: In this audio diary.
Claire: Tell me more.
Sam: It has to do with time.
Claire: Okay.
Sam: And expectations. And it’s basically Frank versus Sebastian.
Claire: Classic.
Sam: Right? Frank is all about, you know, going with the flow.
Claire: Yeah.
Sam: What happens, happens.
Claire: Yeah, we’ll figure it out.
Sam: Yeah. And Sebastian is much more. Structure and efficiency.
Claire: Yes, exactly.
Sam: Sicily versus German efficiency.
Claire: Yes, exactly.
Sam: So how do we explain?
Claire: Well, this gets to the heart of these cultural differences we’re exploring. Classic example of what’s called polychronic versus monochronic
Sam: Hold on, time orientation.
Claire: Break that down for us. What are we talking about here?
Sam: Okay, so imagine a world where time is this neatly organized calendar with each appointment
Claire slotted in perfectly. That’s the essence of a monochronic culture, like Germany. Punctuality, very important. Schedules are everything.
Sam: Sacred, don’t mess with the schedule.
Claire: Whoa, no. And multitasking? Not really their thing.
Sam: Not their jam.
Claire: Not their jam. Now, on the other hand. Picture a world where time is more fluid, more like a flowing river than a rigid timetable. That’s the polychronic approach. Very common in a lot of Mediterranean and Latin American cultures.
Sam: Interesting.
Claire: Yeah, they’re comfortable juggling multiple things at once. Interruptions? Just part of life’s tapestry. And relationships often trump rigid adherence to a schedule.
Sam: So it sounds like the Germans would be much more.
Claire: Monochronic.
Sam: Monochronic. And let’s say someone from.
Claire: Polychronic.
Sam: Polychronic.
Claire: Yeah, exactly.
Sam: So that explains why Frank is so unfazed by these train delays. Yes. Because he even says in the meeting.
Claire: Yeah, he’s like.
Sam: “It’s fine, everything runs on corridors.”
Claire: “Yeah, it’ll work out.”
Sam: “Yeah, it’ll all work out.”
Claire: I’d be a ball of stress.
Sam: I know, me too.
Claire: But you know what? There’s a certain wisdom in that go-with-the-flow mentality.
Sam: There is.
Claire: You know, sometimes you just gotta roll with it.
Sam: Roll with the punches.
Claire: Exactly.
Sam: So how does this difference in time orientation play out?
Claire: It’s huge.
Sam: When you’ve got these cross-cultural collaborations,
Claire: it can be a recipe for disaster. If you’re not careful.
Sam: Yeah, because what might seem efficient
Claire and respectful
Sam in one culture.
Claire: In one culture.
Sam: Could be seen as rigid or even chaotic in another.
Claire: It’s like trying to dance the tango.
Sam: I love it.
Claire: When your partner’s expecting a waltz.
Sam: Perfect analogy.
Claire: All right, so we’ve got these contrasting rhythms, these different approaches to time. But we also get this really interesting glimpse into Julia’s world as she’s navigating the early days of her PhD program.
Sam: And new to the program.
Claire: Yeah.
Claire: Her experience with imposter syndrome.
Sam: Oh yeah.
Claire: Is so relatable.
Sam: It’s so common, especially in those high-achieving academic circles.
Claire: Right.
Sam: You know that feeling of. I don’t belong here. I’m surrounded by all these brilliant people.
Claire: Yeah, like little fish. Big pond. Or like a tiny fish in a tank full of sharks.
Sam: Exactly.
Claire: Yeah.
Sam: And Julia even mentions how intimidated she feels, by some of her colleagues.
Claire: Yeah, like she even says.
Sam: “They’re really impressive.”
Claire: “They’re really smart people. Like, you can tell she’s like. “Oh my God,
Sam I don’t know what I’m doing here.
Claire I don’t belong.”
SamI don’t belong.
Claire But at the same time, she’s drawn to them.
Sam: Right.
Claire: She wants to learn from them.
Sam: Oh yeah, wants their feedback.
Claire: Yeah, she’s like, “I want to pick their brains.”
Sam: Yeah.
Claire: But, oh my gosh, they’re so smart.
Sam: Yeah.
Claire: It’s that push and pull. Between admiration and self-doubt.
Sam: And that’s imposter syndrome.
Claire: Imposter syndrome.
Sam: Right.
Claire: Like you said,
Sam you’re afraid of being found out. As a fraud Even though you’re not.
Claire: Which is irrational.
Sam: Right.
Claire: But that’s how it goes.
Sam: It’s that feeling.
Claire: It’s that feeling.
Sam: And I love Sebastian’s insights.
Claire: Oh yeah.
Sam: About this whole
Claire introvert/extrovert
Sam: Introvert / extrovert dynamic because he observes that people who are more extroverted often kind of rise to the top.
Claire: Yeah, they’re the ones who get noticed.
Sam: Yeah Even if they’re not necessarily.
Claire: Competent.
Sam: The most competent. Like the halo effect.
Claire: Exactly. Yeah. You make a good first impression. People assume you’re good at everything.
Sam: Right And if you’re more like Julia.
Claire: Right.
Sam: Who’s maybe more reserved.
Claire: More soft-spoken.
Sam: It can be tough.
Claire: It can be really tough.
Sam: Because even if you’re brilliant.
Claire: Mm-hmm.
Sam: You’re not the one.
Claire: You’re not the one who’s out there.
Sam: Blowing your own horn.
Claire: Tooting your own horn.
Sam: Yeah.
Claire: Yeah.
Sam: So does this emphasis on outward appearances.
Claire: Yeah.
Sam: Create a system.
Claire: That rewards.
Sam: That rewards superficiality over substance?
Claire: It makes you think, doesn’t it?
Sam: It really does.
Claire: Food for thought.
Sam: Big time.
Claire: Yeah.
Sam: Because it goes back to that question of
Claire authenticity
Sam Authenticity versus adaptation.
Claire: Yeah.
Sam: Can you even succeed in a system like that without sacrificing..
Claire: A part of yourself?
Sam: Yeah, your own values.
Claire: It’s a tough one.
Sam: It’s a tough one.
Claire: It is, it is a tough one.
Sam It really is
Claire: It makes you think.
Sam: Yeah.It makes you think about that tightrope that we all walk, right?
Sam: It is a balancing act.
Claire: Yeah.
Sam: And it’s about being true to yourself, but also, you know, navigating these environments.
Claire: Yeah.
Sam: That maybe value different things.
Claire: Yeah.: And it’s like sometimes those values.
Sam: Totally at odds.
Claire: At odds. And it’s like, how do you even?
Sam: Yeah, how do you bridge that gap?
Claire: Bridge that gap, right?
Sam: Without losing yourself.
Claire: Yeah.
Sam: In the process.
Claire: It’s like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole sometimes.
Sam: I love it.
Claire: Right?
Sam: That’s a good one.
Claire: So how do we find that balance?
Sam: Well, I think it takes a few things.
Claire: Okay.
Sam: You need a good dose of self-awareness.
Claire: Okay.
Sam: You gotta know what your non-negotiables are.
Claire: Okay.
Sam: What are those values?
Claire: What are your values?
Sam: That you’re just not willing to compromise on. And then you need a little bit of courage. Because sometimes. Standing up for those values means taking a risk.
Claire: It can be lonely out there.
Sam: It can be lonely.
Claire: On that limb. But you know what? Sometimes it’s worth it.
Sam: You gotta be willing.
Claire: To kind of challenge those norms that don’t feel right.
Sam: To rock the boat a little bit.
Claire: Rock the boat.
Sam: Maybe even gently nudge that hole into a slightly more square shape.
Claire: Yes. Make a little more room for those square pegs.
Sam: Right. Because at the end of the day, you want to find your tribe.
Claire: You do.
Sam: Right? You want to find those people who get you.
Claire: Absolutely.
Sam: But that doesn’t mean finding people who are exactly like you.
Claire: No, no, no.
Sam: It’s about finding people who.
Claire: Appreciate you.
Sam: Appreciate you for who you are.
Claire: All the quirks.
Sam: The good, the bad.
Claire: The complexities.
Sam: All the complexities.
Sam: Yes.
Claire: The whole package.
Sam: So it’s about finding those people.
Claire: To celebrate your square peg-ness.
Sam: Yes.
Claire: In a world of round holes.
Sam: I love that.
Claire: Right?
Sam: That’s so good.
Claire: Because those are the people who challenge us to grow.
Sam: Yeah.
Claire: Even when it’s uncomfortable.
Sam: And sometimes that growth means?
Claire: It might mean adapting.
Sam: Yeah.
Claire: Certain aspects of how we communicate or approach things.
Sam: Right.
Claire: But it’s not about becoming someone we’re not.
Sam: Right.
Claire: It’s about bridging those.
Sam: Gaps
Claire: Those cultural divides.
Sam: So it’s about finding ways to connect authentically.
Claire: Yes.
Sam: Even when those differences in values or communication styles feel as different as like a plate of pasta.
Claire: I was gonna say a German train schedule.
Sam: Right.
Claire: Perfectly timed, of course.
Sam: Of course.
Claire: Because you know what? Within those differences, within those contrasting approaches and values, that’s where the magic happens.
Sam: That’s where the good stuff is.
Claire: That’s where the growth is. You know might discover a new favourite dish.
Sam: Ooh,
Claire: I like that. You might learn to appreciate the beauty of a slightly delayed train.
Sam: Okay, so maybe I need to embrace a little more of that
Claire: corridor mentality.
Sam: Corridor mentality.
Claire A little bit of that go with the flow.
Sam: A little bit more go with the flow. Yeah, maybe I’ll learn to enjoy a little pasta every now and then.
Claire: There you go.
Sam: Right.
Claire: A little pasta, a little structure.
Sam: A little bit of both.
Claire: It’s all about balance, right?
Sam: Balance.
Claire: Finding that sweet spot.
Sam: That’s what it’s all about.
Claire: Yeah.
Sam: Well, I think we’ve reached the end of our deep dive for today.
Claire: I think so too.
Sam: But just like those cultural differences we’ve been exploring. The conversation doesn’t have to stop here.
Claire: Absolutely not. This is just the beginning.
Sam: We want to hear from you. Our listeners.
Claire: What are your experiences?
Sam: What are those cultural quirks that you’ve encountered?
Claire: Yes.
Claire: Have you bumped up against any of these differences?
Sam: In your own lives?
Claire: At work.
Sam: In your travels. In your relationships?
Claire: Share your stories with us.
Sam: Yeah, we’d love to hear them.
Claire: You can find all the ways to connect with us.
Sam: On our website.
Claire: And until next time, keep exploring. Keep questioning.
Sam: And keep diving deep into this fascinating world of human interaction.
Claire: Absolutely.
Sam: We’ll see you next time
Brida is a membership community for people who wish to improve their communication skills in English. For more information, contact Frank on WhatsApp +33 6 01 89 08 04 or frank.peters@brida.eu. Website: www.brida.eu